British Army Swaggerstick?

Iliad · 22nd December 2008, 09:23 PM

Hi all, my last posting was of an Indian Tulwar collected by a British Army officer, so I thought I'd continue the theme. Here are pics of what I believe is a British Army Swaggerstick with concealed dagger, and I was told by the person I purchased from that he thought it had been used in India in the 19th century. The scabbard and handle are wood covered by leather, with the leather showing signs of considerable wear; very thin in places. Comments will be appreciated as I want to increase my knowledge of the items in my collection.
Brian

Gavin Nugent · 23rd December 2008, 10:39 AM

A neat piece Brian. What are the domensions of this one? It does carry some age but how old, I could not say with certainty. It is a shame to see the blade being ground the way it is. I look forward to discussing it more.

Gav

Iliad · 23rd December 2008, 08:01 PM

Hi Gav,
Overall length 48cm, blade length 35cm. The blade is quite sharp, with really sharp point. How is the new baby? And season's greetings to you and yours.
Brian

broadaxe · 23rd December 2008, 09:41 PM

From my own experience, leather coated swagger sticks are typical to the colonies of East & South Africa, so is the work on this blade.

Tim Simmons · 24th December 2008, 10:38 AM

I also think it is African. I am thinking North Africa parts of the Sahel?

Gavin Nugent · 24th December 2008, 10:25 PM

Africa certainly makes more sense as the officers in India usually carried long walking cane length swagger sticks make from Malacca and usually with silver/silver plated or nickel plated tops, often with regiment insignia too. The officers in India were in the habit of whipping the sepoys with these canes rather than stabbing anyone.

Gav

Iliad · 24th December 2008, 10:29 PM

I am puzzled by the possible African origin, as the blade appears to my inexpert eye to be quite sophisticated in its manufacture. Maybe of European origin but exported to Africa and used there? I attach hopefully better pics of the blade. My apologies for poor pics; I am an Accountant, not a photographer!

Also, pics for comparative purposes, of what probably could not be called a swaggerstick, bought by me from a man who used to live in Kenya. He watched the village blacksmith make this weapon from scrap metal and then purchased it. The blade is crudely made when compared with the first one, hence my wondering at the attribution to Africa of the much more expertly made blade of the first.
All opinions welcome!
Brian

Tim Simmons · 25th December 2008, 11:39 AM

Might be time to explore more African work?

broadaxe · 26th December 2008, 04:42 PM

The blade of the swagger stick in question looks like have been a long European military-style sword blade in the beginning, re-worked. This is not uncommon. Look at the crude grinding marks at the edge and point and the zigzag decoration pattern.

Iliad · 27th December 2008, 12:34 AM

Gentlemen, thank you for your advice, which I shall mull over. I prefer to think that the item was heroically used in the Indian Mutiny by a British officer in the defence of a damsel in distress, slaying hundreds in the process! Alas, this may not be so!
I have begun two new threads, one of another swaggerstick(?) and one of a Saif............African, to please Tim.
Brian

22nd December 2008, 09:23 PM	#1
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	British Army Swaggerstick? Hi all, my last posting was of an Indian Tulwar collected by a British Army officer, so I thought I'd continue the theme. Here are pics of what I believe is a British Army Swaggerstick with concealed dagger, and I was told by the person I purchased from that he thought it had been used in India in the 19th century. The scabbard and handle are wood covered by leather, with the leather showing signs of considerable wear; very thin in places. Comments will be appreciated as I want to increase my knowledge of the items in my collection. Brian Attached Images

23rd December 2008, 10:39 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A nice piece A neat piece Brian. What are the domensions of this one? It does carry some age but how old, I could not say with certainty. It is a shame to see the blade being ground the way it is. I look forward to discussing it more. Gav

23rd December 2008, 08:01 PM	#3
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Swaggerstick Hi Gav, Overall length 48cm, blade length 35cm. The blade is quite sharp, with really sharp point. How is the new baby? And season's greetings to you and yours. Brian

24th December 2008, 10:25 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Africa makes sense Africa certainly makes more sense as the officers in India usually carried long walking cane length swagger sticks make from Malacca and usually with silver/silver plated or nickel plated tops, often with regiment insignia too. The officers in India were in the habit of whipping the sepoys with these canes rather than stabbing anyone. Gav

24th December 2008, 10:29 PM	#7
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Swaggerstick I am puzzled by the possible African origin, as the blade appears to my inexpert eye to be quite sophisticated in its manufacture. Maybe of European origin but exported to Africa and used there? I attach hopefully better pics of the blade. My apologies for poor pics; I am an Accountant, not a photographer! Also, pics for comparative purposes, of what probably could not be called a swaggerstick, bought by me from a man who used to live in Kenya. He watched the village blacksmith make this weapon from scrap metal and then purchased it. The blade is crudely made when compared with the first one, hence my wondering at the attribution to Africa of the much more expertly made blade of the first. All opinions welcome! Brian Attached Images

23rd December 2008, 09:41 PM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	From my own experience, leather coated swagger sticks are typical to the colonies of East & South Africa, so is the work on this blade.

24th December 2008, 10:38 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I also think it is African. I am thinking North Africa parts of the Sahel?

25th December 2008, 11:39 AM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Might be time to explore more African work?

26th December 2008, 04:42 PM	#9
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	The blade of the swagger stick in question looks like have been a long European military-style sword blade in the beginning, re-worked. This is not uncommon. Look at the crude grinding marks at the edge and point and the zigzag decoration pattern.

27th December 2008, 12:34 AM	#10
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	British Army Swaggerstick? Gentlemen, thank you for your advice, which I shall mull over. I prefer to think that the item was heroically used in the Indian Mutiny by a British officer in the defence of a damsel in distress, slaying hundreds in the process! Alas, this may not be so! I have begun two new threads, one of another swaggerstick(?) and one of a Saif............African, to please Tim. Brian