Corsairs

Rick · 7th August 2015, 01:22 AM

Speaking of Pyrats
An unusual subject for marine paintings .
Constitution convoying an American Brig off N.Africa 1802 or so .
4x16 sight .
Artist Joe Hunt .
The poor quality picture is on purpose .
Arrived today .

fernando · 7th August 2015, 12:40 PM

Nice

Jim McDougall · 7th August 2015, 05:23 PM

Fantastic art Rick!!!
There really is nothing like these exciting maritime themes!!!

I always liked the term 'corsairs'

immediately sounds thrilling, fast and formidable (a perfect name for the WWII Navy and Marine fighter planes).

Seeing this picture brings to mind the Mamluk sabres and the Moroccan and Algerian sa'ifs.......

Art is supposed to evoke emotion and passion........this one sure does!

Rick · 7th August 2015, 07:10 PM

Another passion of mine .

Corsairs, Sallee Rovers, Barbary Pirates .
Captured slaves chained to the Galley's oars .
Mounted with guns fore and aft; most warships avoided firing into them for fear of killing their own countrymen .
A fascinating time in history .

kronckew · 7th August 2015, 07:57 PM

i always think of Mulay Ahmed Muhamed Raisuli the Magnificent, sherif of the Riffian Berbers and the true defender of the faithful, and of the blood of the prophet, peace be upon him - who oddly has a very scottish accent. and a BIG sword.

.

Rick · 8th August 2015, 12:45 AM

Och aye !

An hundred years later more or less ... Jefferson, then Teddy R. .
Nelson said of Decatur's work by sea: 'The greatest feat of our age .'

The more things change; the more they stay the same .
Who said that ?

Pyrats seem to persist despite the passage of the centuries ..

M ELEY · 8th August 2015, 01:43 AM

Indeed, alive and well they still are, but they are perceived more as bandits these days. During the Golden Age, it could be argued that at least some of them had morals and a code they followed (Bartholomew Roberts comes to mind.)

Awesome picture, BTW, I love how the canvas stretches to allow such a beautiful sense of the vast sea! I'll have to look up that artist!

A. G. Maisey · 8th August 2015, 08:01 AM

Who has seen the Tom Hanks movie "Mr. Phillips"?

Modern day piracy.

fernando · 8th August 2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

...most warships avoided firing into them for fear of killing their own countrymen ...

You wouldn't guess how selective Bizantine pirates could be; with this portable barbecue they would only burn whom they aimed at

.

.

kronckew · 8th August 2015, 12:57 PM

ah, greek fire. the lost weapon formulae.

Rick · 8th August 2015, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Awesome picture, BTW, I love how the canvas stretches to allow such a beautiful sense of the vast sea! I'll have to look up that artist!

Oil on Masonite .
I went through the art info sites (I don't belong to any) and got very limited information; couldn't even find a bio .

Did find some other examples there of his work .
For instance:
http://www.arcadja.com/auctions/en/h...artist/175660/

kronckew · 8th August 2015, 04:41 PM

some nice ships. great painting, rick.

Rick · 8th August 2015, 04:54 PM

I was lucky .
The Seller had mistakenly listed this as a reproduction; therefor no one else bit .
They just don't do repros on Masonite and he is too obscure an artist to have had his work reproduced .

Shakethetrees · 8th August 2015, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I was lucky .
The Seller had mistakenly listed this as a reproduction; therefor no one else bit .
They just don't do repros on Masonite and he is too obscure an artist to have had his work reproduced .

I hate to burst your bubble, but Masonite was not patented until 1924. It was first made in England in 1898 but was not really developed commercially until the patent.

Rick · 8th August 2015, 07:02 PM

What bubble ?
It's oil on Masonite painted in the latter part of the 20th century .

The date '1802' or so referred to the time period in our history .

Here's another piece of American maritime history from the walls .

Poor Wifey ..

M ELEY · 8th August 2015, 11:59 PM

Spectacular 3 masted brig! You've got great taste in maritime art, Rick!

Alan, haven't seen it yet, but I'm told it's great. Some controversy, though, about the real Phillips putting the crew in danger in the first place? I can't remember the details...

Jim, you're talkin' my language...sa'ifs, Berber sabers, Turkish kilich (spelling?). I always wondered if the bright 'barber pole' sails were accurate depictions of the Salee rovers? I've seen other paintings indicating such, and of course there's that infamous play with the 'pyrates' dressed in loud colors.

Shakethetrees · 9th August 2015, 04:19 AM

Great picture!

As far as the one painted on Masonite, I was under the impression you thought it was from the period, c.1800. My mistake.

A. G. Maisey · 9th August 2015, 04:58 AM

Mark, I don't know the real story, only what I saw in the movie, but to my mind that ship was in danger from the moment it was routed through the area off Somalia where pirates operate.

The crew signed on for the trip.

The captain appeared to follow his guidelines to the letter.

What stuck in my mind was that it stripped any romantic ideas of piracy right away.

Back in the 1970's I met two men who had been involved in piracy in the South China Sea. What I saw in Captain Phillips aligned very closely with what these two men and their family told me.

There is nothing romantic about piracy. I don't believe there ever was.

PS --- sorry, I got the title wrong in my first post.

fernando · 9th August 2015, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... There is nothing romantic about piracy. I don't believe there ever was ...

I concur with your perspective, Alan. Although a fascinating theme, romantic piracy was only the strong prop of film industry ... to put it crudely.

Rick · 9th August 2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Great picture!

As far as the one painted on Masonite, I was under the impression you thought it was from the period, c.1800. My mistake.

Thanks .
I'm not even sure that style of rendering was used in the early 19th C. .

The second painting is Flying Cloud done by the god of marine painters Montague Dawson; I feel blessed to have it .

rickystl · 9th August 2015, 07:50 PM

Hi Rick.
What a wonderful piece of art. Congratulations!!
Rick.

M ELEY · 9th August 2015, 09:04 PM

With extremely rare exceptions, I agree with you, Alan, about piracy. I met a man my age (nearly 50) who was a Cambodian refuge in a camp with his mother and 4 siblings. He told me a horrific story of a man who came from upriver to the camp distraught and in anguish. He and his wife had been attacked by river pirates, who stole all of their belongings, abused his spouse and killed her in front of him. The man later took his own life in front of many in the camp. Seeing the pain on my friend's face, knowing what he saw (the man killing himself) at such a young age was devastating.

In my new novel, I do try to be fair, showing pirates for the low lives and treasure seekers that they were. However, many privateers and sailors serving their nation were sometimes accused of being plain old pirates for the sake of defaming their character (John Paul Jones, Sir Walter Raleigh, etc). Likewise, having read about the Caine mutiny, the harsh lives of sailors and the unfairness of the times, can one really wonder why 'going on the account' was so appealing?

A. G. Maisey · 9th August 2015, 11:49 PM

I know very little about pirates Mark, but I've probably gained a little bit of general knowledge about them from occasional reading, film documentaries, and of course my first hand contact with the family in Jawa that I mentioned.

Your Cambodian story fits well with what I was told of the way that SE Asian pirates operate. The people I spoke with used small boats to get close to bigger boats at night, they would get one man on board, he'd lower a rope or rope ladder and the others would get on board then they'd take over the ship and anybody who offered resistance was immediately killed. In fact what one of these men said to me was that anybody who looked dangerous was killed. If they got the right type of ship they'd sell the entire ship off for scrap.

What I've read of the old-time historic pirates tends to make me think of them as sea-born motor-bike gangs:- intensely democratic, capable a high degree of brutality, totally untrustworthy. But compared with the life of an ordinary seaman of the time, especially one pressed into service, maybe they had a somewhat better life and possibly better long-term prospects --- if they survived.

It is often very difficult to understand and evaluate the ways and standards of people from a different time and place.

Rick · 10th August 2015, 12:07 AM

A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 12:46 AM

Yeah, that's what they showed in Captain Phillips.

These bandits up north of and around Jawa don't just take big ships, they also love the the little privately owned sail boats that people cruise around the islands on. Been a number of Australians who have fallen victim one way or another.

One ludicrous thing that I half remember from a few years back involved an Australian boat being seized by Indonesian police and ordered into port for being in Indonesian waters and having undeclared/unregistered/prohibited firearms on board. The Aussies finished up in jail, eventually got out.

Who in their right mind would sail a 30 or 40 footer around that part of the world without an AK47 on board?

Rick · 10th August 2015, 01:59 AM

Now, I could tell you a story about a neighbor of mine took an M60 and a couple of LAW's on his sailboat through there right after the V.N. war
on his way to H.K.
South China Sea; badass neighborhood .
Different set of morals out there for the last thousand years at least .

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 04:14 AM

Different set of moral standards in lots of places Rick, not just SCS.

fernando · 10th August 2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

... Wasn't that resource installed in Captain Phillips ship? He did activate it, but they didn't care, though.

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 01:41 PM

Yes Fernando --- water hoses, and right --- the bad guys went straight through them.

VANDOO · 11th August 2015, 05:09 AM

SEVERAL YEARS BACK THERE WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN FLORIDA OF DRUG SMUGGLERS TAKEING OVER PRIVATELY OWNED SAILBOATS AND KILLING WHOEVER WAS ON BOARD AND THEN USING THE BOATS TO SMUGGLE IN DRUGS. DURING THE SAME TIME LOTS OF OLD DC3 AIRCRAFT SHOWED UP ABANDONED ALL OVER FLORIDA. THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT AS ONE GOOD RUN WOULD EASILY PUT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO BUY MORE DRUGS AND CHEAP AIRPLANES LATER. THE SAILBOATS WERE SOMETIMES ABANDONED BUT OFTEN MIGHT MAKE MORE THAN ONE RUN AS THE SHIPS PAPERS WERE HARD TO GET LEGALLY SO OF MORE USE FOR BOATS WITH LESS CHANCE OF GETTING CAUGHT.
DURING THAT TIME ONE GROUP OF MERCENARIES APPLIED TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARQUE TO ARM UP AND HUNT THE DRUG PIRATES AND KEEP THE MONEY, LOOT AND SHIPS, THEY WERE DENIED. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE 1970'S THRU 1980'S BUT MAY STILL HAPPEN BUT WITH THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN A LARGE TRUCK IS QUICKER AND WORKS FINE.

7th August 2015, 01:22 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Corsairs Speaking of Pyrats An unusual subject for marine paintings . Constitution convoying an American Brig off N.Africa 1802 or so . 4x16 sight . Artist Joe Hunt . The poor quality picture is on purpose . Arrived today . Attached Images

7th August 2015, 07:10 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Marine Art Another passion of mine . Corsairs, Sallee Rovers, Barbary Pirates . Captured slaves chained to the Galley's oars . Mounted with guns fore and aft; most warships avoided firing into them for fear of killing their own countrymen . A fascinating time in history .

7th August 2015, 07:57 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i always think of Mulay Ahmed Muhamed Raisuli the Magnificent, sherif of the Riffian Berbers and the true defender of the faithful, and of the blood of the prophet, peace be upon him - who oddly has a very scottish accent. and a BIG sword. . Last edited by fernando; 7th August 2015 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Photobucket links not adequate... even if blank

8th August 2015, 07:02 PM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	What bubble ? It's oil on Masonite painted in the latter part of the 20th century . The date '1802' or so referred to the time period in our history . Here's another piece of American maritime history from the walls . Poor Wifey .. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 8th August 2015 at 07:49 PM.

7th August 2015, 12:40 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Nice

7th August 2015, 05:23 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Fantastic art Rick!!! There really is nothing like these exciting maritime themes!!! I always liked the term 'corsairs' immediately sounds thrilling, fast and formidable (a perfect name for the WWII Navy and Marine fighter planes). Seeing this picture brings to mind the Mamluk sabres and the Moroccan and Algerian sa'ifs....... Art is supposed to evoke emotion and passion........this one sure does!

8th August 2015, 12:45 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Och aye ! An hundred years later more or less ... Jefferson, then Teddy R. . Nelson said of Decatur's work by sea: 'The greatest feat of our age .' The more things change; the more they stay the same . Who said that ? Pyrats seem to persist despite the passage of the centuries ..

8th August 2015, 01:43 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Indeed, alive and well they still are, but they are perceived more as bandits these days. During the Golden Age, it could be argued that at least some of them had morals and a code they followed (Bartholomew Roberts comes to mind.) Awesome picture, BTW, I love how the canvas stretches to allow such a beautiful sense of the vast sea! I'll have to look up that artist!

8th August 2015, 08:01 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Who has seen the Tom Hanks movie "Mr. Phillips"? Modern day piracy.

8th August 2015, 12:57 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	ah, greek fire. the lost weapon formulae.

8th August 2015, 04:41 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	some nice ships. great painting, rick.

8th August 2015, 04:54 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	I was lucky . The Seller had mistakenly listed this as a reproduction; therefor no one else bit . They just don't do repros on Masonite and he is too obscure an artist to have had his work reproduced .

8th August 2015, 11:59 PM	#16
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Spectacular 3 masted brig! You've got great taste in maritime art, Rick! Alan, haven't seen it yet, but I'm told it's great. Some controversy, though, about the real Phillips putting the crew in danger in the first place? I can't remember the details... Jim, you're talkin' my language...sa'ifs, Berber sabers, Turkish kilich (spelling?). I always wondered if the bright 'barber pole' sails were accurate depictions of the Salee rovers? I've seen other paintings indicating such, and of course there's that infamous play with the 'pyrates' dressed in loud colors.

9th August 2015, 04:19 AM	#17
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Great picture! As far as the one painted on Masonite, I was under the impression you thought it was from the period, c.1800. My mistake.

9th August 2015, 04:58 AM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Mark, I don't know the real story, only what I saw in the movie, but to my mind that ship was in danger from the moment it was routed through the area off Somalia where pirates operate. The crew signed on for the trip. The captain appeared to follow his guidelines to the letter. What stuck in my mind was that it stripped any romantic ideas of piracy right away. Back in the 1970's I met two men who had been involved in piracy in the South China Sea. What I saw in Captain Phillips aligned very closely with what these two men and their family told me. There is nothing romantic about piracy. I don't believe there ever was. PS --- sorry, I got the title wrong in my first post.

9th August 2015, 07:50 PM	#21
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Rick. What a wonderful piece of art. Congratulations!! Rick.

9th August 2015, 09:04 PM	#22
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	With extremely rare exceptions, I agree with you, Alan, about piracy. I met a man my age (nearly 50) who was a Cambodian refuge in a camp with his mother and 4 siblings. He told me a horrific story of a man who came from upriver to the camp distraught and in anguish. He and his wife had been attacked by river pirates, who stole all of their belongings, abused his spouse and killed her in front of him. The man later took his own life in front of many in the camp. Seeing the pain on my friend's face, knowing what he saw (the man killing himself) at such a young age was devastating. In my new novel, I do try to be fair, showing pirates for the low lives and treasure seekers that they were. However, many privateers and sailors serving their nation were sometimes accused of being plain old pirates for the sake of defaming their character (John Paul Jones, Sir Walter Raleigh, etc). Likewise, having read about the Caine mutiny, the harsh lives of sailors and the unfairness of the times, can one really wonder why 'going on the account' was so appealing?

9th August 2015, 11:49 PM	#23
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	I know very little about pirates Mark, but I've probably gained a little bit of general knowledge about them from occasional reading, film documentaries, and of course my first hand contact with the family in Jawa that I mentioned. Your Cambodian story fits well with what I was told of the way that SE Asian pirates operate. The people I spoke with used small boats to get close to bigger boats at night, they would get one man on board, he'd lower a rope or rope ladder and the others would get on board then they'd take over the ship and anybody who offered resistance was immediately killed. In fact what one of these men said to me was that anybody who looked dangerous was killed. If they got the right type of ship they'd sell the entire ship off for scrap. What I've read of the old-time historic pirates tends to make me think of them as sea-born motor-bike gangs:- intensely democratic, capable a high degree of brutality, totally untrustworthy. But compared with the life of an ordinary seaman of the time, especially one pressed into service, maybe they had a somewhat better life and possibly better long-term prospects --- if they survived. It is often very difficult to understand and evaluate the ways and standards of people from a different time and place.

10th August 2015, 12:07 AM	#24
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

10th August 2015, 12:46 AM	#25
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yeah, that's what they showed in Captain Phillips. These bandits up north of and around Jawa don't just take big ships, they also love the the little privately owned sail boats that people cruise around the islands on. Been a number of Australians who have fallen victim one way or another. One ludicrous thing that I half remember from a few years back involved an Australian boat being seized by Indonesian police and ordered into port for being in Indonesian waters and having undeclared/unregistered/prohibited firearms on board. The Aussies finished up in jail, eventually got out. Who in their right mind would sail a 30 or 40 footer around that part of the world without an AK47 on board?

10th August 2015, 01:59 AM	#26
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Now, I could tell you a story about a neighbor of mine took an M60 and a couple of LAW's on his sailboat through there right after the V.N. war on his way to H.K. South China Sea; badass neighborhood . Different set of morals out there for the last thousand years at least .

10th August 2015, 04:14 AM	#27
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Different set of moral standards in lots of places Rick, not just SCS.

10th August 2015, 01:41 PM	#29
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes Fernando --- water hoses, and right --- the bad guys went straight through them.

11th August 2015, 05:09 AM	#30
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SEVERAL YEARS BACK THERE WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN FLORIDA OF DRUG SMUGGLERS TAKEING OVER PRIVATELY OWNED SAILBOATS AND KILLING WHOEVER WAS ON BOARD AND THEN USING THE BOATS TO SMUGGLE IN DRUGS. DURING THE SAME TIME LOTS OF OLD DC3 AIRCRAFT SHOWED UP ABANDONED ALL OVER FLORIDA. THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT AS ONE GOOD RUN WOULD EASILY PUT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO BUY MORE DRUGS AND CHEAP AIRPLANES LATER. THE SAILBOATS WERE SOMETIMES ABANDONED BUT OFTEN MIGHT MAKE MORE THAN ONE RUN AS THE SHIPS PAPERS WERE HARD TO GET LEGALLY SO OF MORE USE FOR BOATS WITH LESS CHANCE OF GETTING CAUGHT. DURING THAT TIME ONE GROUP OF MERCENARIES APPLIED TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARQUE TO ARM UP AND HUNT THE DRUG PIRATES AND KEEP THE MONEY, LOOT AND SHIPS, THEY WERE DENIED. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE 1970'S THRU 1980'S BUT MAY STILL HAPPEN BUT WITH THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN A LARGE TRUCK IS QUICKER AND WORKS FINE.