Question about a briquet

M ELEY · 24th February 2010, 07:46 AM

OK, against my better judgement (and finances) I bid on and won this auction. The sword I really wanted was the iron-hilted specimen ca.1810-30 period. The brass hilt briquet came with it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I know there is a whole area of study on these swords (Jean Binck, are you out there?!) and France, Russia, Spain, the Prussian republics, etc, all had their own types. This one lacks the Klingenthal or St Eteinne marks, any cyrillic markings or the classic 'Ano Toledo' marks found on Span pieces. I doubt its naval, as no anchor stamps or etchings on it, so I'm assuming infantry. My question is-

Does anyone recognise the odd markings on it?
Is it infantry?
Country of origin?
Time Frame?

The brass looks cleaned, but the blade seems old enough. Strange that the markings look more modern. Stamped later? No searches pulled up anything for 'WAR PD Wp CAS tl'

Thanks!

fernando · 24th February 2010, 12:50 PM

Warranted ? Cast Steel ?

Fernando

M ELEY · 24th February 2010, 01:40 PM

I had thought of something like that, but country of origin didn't seem to fit with this. I know the U.K. never went with the briquet, neither did the U.S. I have worries that this might be a modern piece. (I was even worried that the CAS could have stood for Cas Iberia, but I've found no proof that they used this mark).
Thank you, Fernando, for responding. I'll do a little research to see if your suggestion was used for these type swords.

fernando · 24th February 2010, 01:59 PM

I know the briquet didn't make the Brits taste; i was influenced by the 'WAR' composition, as it sort of sounds english ... to me

.
I can tell you that the letter 'W' isn't used in Spain or Portugal; neither in France, unless a few exceptions or borrowed names.
OTOH, the 'warranted cast steel' stamp is often seen in British tools ... for what this is worth.
I hope you sort it out, anyway; i die of anger each i don't manage to discern the meaning of marks in my stuff.
Fernando

M ELEY · 24th February 2010, 02:18 PM

Ah yes, the anguish of not being able to solve a mystery. I know it well

A quick search about crucible steel/forged steel shows that its been around since the 1780's, and the "warranted" stamp seems to have been used, as you say, on many tools of fine quality from around 1820 into the early 20th century. As the Brits didn't use these type swords, perhaps it is an American piece after all? If so, crucible steel didn't really start until the 1860's in the U.S. Interestingly, my source says that the tools that most frequently bore this mark were often ship carpenter tools...very interesting. Thanks again for the tip. I'll keep up the search.

Ian Knight · 24th February 2010, 02:34 PM

The sword with a cast handle is very similar to a British P1896 mountain artillery sword. See page 82 of 'British Military Swords' by H. Withers.

Ian

24th February 2010, 07:46 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Question about a briquet OK, against my better judgement (and finances) I bid on and won this auction. The sword I really wanted was the iron-hilted specimen ca.1810-30 period. The brass hilt briquet came with it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT I know there is a whole area of study on these swords (Jean Binck, are you out there?!) and France, Russia, Spain, the Prussian republics, etc, all had their own types. This one lacks the Klingenthal or St Eteinne marks, any cyrillic markings or the classic 'Ano Toledo' marks found on Span pieces. I doubt its naval, as no anchor stamps or etchings on it, so I'm assuming infantry. My question is- Does anyone recognise the odd markings on it? Is it infantry? Country of origin? Time Frame? The brass looks cleaned, but the blade seems old enough. Strange that the markings look more modern. Stamped later? No searches pulled up anything for 'WAR PD Wp CAS tl' Thanks!

24th February 2010, 12:50 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Warranted ? Cast Steel ? Fernando

24th February 2010, 01:40 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	I had thought of something like that, but country of origin didn't seem to fit with this. I know the U.K. never went with the briquet, neither did the U.S. I have worries that this might be a modern piece. (I was even worried that the CAS could have stood for Cas Iberia, but I've found no proof that they used this mark). Thank you, Fernando, for responding. I'll do a little research to see if your suggestion was used for these type swords.

24th February 2010, 01:59 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	I know the briquet didn't make the Brits taste; i was influenced by the 'WAR' composition, as it sort of sounds english ... to me . I can tell you that the letter 'W' isn't used in Spain or Portugal; neither in France, unless a few exceptions or borrowed names. OTOH, the 'warranted cast steel' stamp is often seen in British tools ... for what this is worth. I hope you sort it out, anyway; i die of anger each i don't manage to discern the meaning of marks in my stuff. Fernando

24th February 2010, 02:18 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Ah yes, the anguish of not being able to solve a mystery. I know it well A quick search about crucible steel/forged steel shows that its been around since the 1780's, and the "warranted" stamp seems to have been used, as you say, on many tools of fine quality from around 1820 into the early 20th century. As the Brits didn't use these type swords, perhaps it is an American piece after all? If so, crucible steel didn't really start until the 1860's in the U.S. Interestingly, my source says that the tools that most frequently bore this mark were often ship carpenter tools...very interesting. Thanks again for the tip. I'll keep up the search.

24th February 2010, 02:34 PM	#6
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	The sword with a cast handle is very similar to a British P1896 mountain artillery sword. See page 82 of 'British Military Swords' by H. Withers. Ian