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Old 23rd August 2017, 02:34 PM   #1
fernando
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Default Guess what ... an ammunition

I know this is no place for quizzes but, i couldn't resist asking whether you guys are familiar with this ... projectile. It is made of lead, weighs 42 grams and measures 33X18 mm.
In any case, i will be back soon with the solution .


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Old 23rd August 2017, 02:49 PM   #2
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can it be a fishing lead.

best,
Jasper
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Old 23rd August 2017, 02:56 PM   #3
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Roman slingshot projectile?
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Old 23rd August 2017, 03:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Roman slingshot projectile?



I would also say it is a Roman slingshot projectile.
Here is a picture from an german archeologic discovery near the town Haltern. Similar dimensions as Fernandos example.

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Old 23rd August 2017, 05:42 PM   #5
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Definitively slingingshot projectiles most probably ancient Roman.

On German Wikipedia you will find an detialed article about this objects:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleuderblei

Are there any traces of former inscriptions on the projectiles?
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Old 23rd August 2017, 06:08 PM   #6
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Outstanding; i just went to a shop downtown and when i was back the riddle was already cracked; within precisely 22 minutes.
Indeed a sling projectile, called by archeologists 'gland'; full name glans plumbeae.
As apparently there are no mould seams, it must be the later beaten plate version, of so called biconic shape, which could be dated around the last phase of Roman civil wars (2-1 centuries BC).
Found somewhere in the middle of the country; there are not many around.
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Old 23rd August 2017, 06:17 PM   #7
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What kind of inscriptions Andi?

Ones that were like the graffiti written on later cannon balls and more recently bombs?

Last edited by Rick : 23rd August 2017 at 07:08 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 23rd August 2017, 06:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi
... Are there any traces of former inscriptions on the projectiles?

No Andi, not so lucky; inscriptions were used by the Greeks, a few centuries earlier. There are also examples with a hole in the middle, to make them wistle while flying; i ignore the purpose ... scaring the enemy ?
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Old 23rd August 2017, 06:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
What kind of inscriptions Andi?

One that were like the graffiti written on later cannon balls and more recently bombs?


That was the idea, Rick; phrases like "ΔΕΞΑΙ" (Dexai) meaning "catch" (this one).
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Old 23rd August 2017, 07:04 PM   #10
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The football shape giving it spin thus more accuracy seems quite plausible.
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Old 23rd August 2017, 07:05 PM   #11
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a couple greek cast message ones and some roman ones with a wooden mold. also shows two 'thumb' projectiles, thumb stuck in clay, then lead poured in.
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Old 23rd August 2017, 09:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
...and some roman ones with a wooden mold. also shows two 'thumb' projectiles, thumb stuck in clay, then lead poured in.

You mean replicas of Roman examples, Wayne ? Looks like both glands and molds have been made last Saturday .
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Old 24th August 2017, 06:18 AM   #13
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Very good replicas indeed! Attaining accuracy with a sling is undoubtedly a good way to develop hand-eye coordination. This sort of exercise might just be the thing to get children off the couch and away from electronics on a sunny weekend More appealing than piano lessons, don't you think?
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Old 24th August 2017, 07:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
You mean replicas of Roman examples, Wayne ? Looks like both glands and molds have been made last Saturday .


i found them via google, i am assuming the wooden mold is recent and they have not been polishing old bullets. they are representative of other ancient ones tho. experimental archaeology.

a more thorough googling found a bunch of better and somewhat older examples: acorn & whistlers, old thumbs, scorpio & bird (?), flower power, and a horde of roman shot found in situ near a scottish hill fort, Burnswark Hill, in the Dumfries region of southwest Scotland, that they were attacking.

...and now the science, more experimental archaeology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MB7M27WnG0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJBKfQFD8I
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Old 24th August 2017, 11:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip
... Very good replicas indeed!...

Although a bit puzzling, Philip.
According to studies made, and also some rare phisical evidence, moulds were made of clay (terracota) as per fragments found both in Phanagoria (now in the Hermitage) and Olynthos, this one made out of an amphora handle. In any case, the example i posted was not made by pouring lead into such bivalve moulds but by hammer beating portions of lead plate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip
...Attaining accuracy with a sling is undoubtedly a good way to develop hand-eye coordination. This sort of exercise might just be the thing to get children off the couch and away from electronics on a sunny weekend More appealing than piano lessons, don't you think?...

You are not kiding. After consistent period chronicles, the inhabitants of the Baleares Islands (Maiorca, Ibiza, etc), were massively mercenaries which weapon consisted in sling shot, having being recruited by Greeks and Romans to serve in their military formations. They were said to be the best and, the secret was teaching this art to their children by only giving them food when they managed to hit it with their slings at a distance varying as per their age. Actually the name Baleares comes from the latin Baliarides, because their inhatitants were skilled in 'throwing stones with slings'.


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Old 24th August 2017, 12:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
...and now the science, more experimental archaeology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MB7M27WnG0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJBKfQFD8I

Wayne, i was expecting more from you . These movies are rather virtual: the guy is using a 'sling cannon' instead of the real thing. Probably he is afraid to fail the shot and hit the forehead (or other area) of the guy next to him. ... and only he could hear the hollow gland whistle ... with a pass to my current hard hear .
And from the three options offered by the scholar for the whistle purpose, i guess i would elect the psychological (scaring) one.



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Old 24th August 2017, 01:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
That was the idea, Rick; phrases like "ΔΕΞΑΙ" (Dexai) meaning "catch" (this one).

Although multiple versions are registered, when going deep into this subject, like:
Names of conflicting states or cities; names of Generals; wishings to one self (Victory); (obtain) wishings towards the enemy; animals depiction: generally dangerous; thunderbolts, weapons and similar, as other symbols: scorpions, cobras, eagles, stylized thunderbolts, lances, tridents , etc.
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Old 24th August 2017, 05:23 PM   #18
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Slightly larger slingshot ammunition:

I just returned from a trip to the medieval town of Visby on Gotland. In an arrow slit on the top floor of the St.George gate in the 13thC town wall, can be seen a wedged stone missile catapulted from a mangonel during one of the medieval sieges!


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Last edited by fernando : 24th August 2017 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Turned to upright position
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Old 24th August 2017, 05:33 PM   #19
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Beautiful ... and rather large for a slingshot ammo, indeed .
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Old 24th August 2017, 07:58 PM   #20
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Yes you can read about it on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visby_City_Wall if you scroll down to Saint George Gate.

Not as fascinating as Tomar Castle, though.
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Old 25th August 2017, 07:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrix
...Not as fascinating as Tomar Castle, though.

I see that you have been around ... and have a fine taste .
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