MOROCCAN? KOUMMIYA WITH SERIAL NUMBER ON BLADE

OAKSP · 13th November 2006, 11:03 PM

Hello !

I have just bought my first Koummiyas.

For me they are good pieces.

The only thing that amazes me is that the blades on both have some numbers engraved, one is 602,5 or 6025 the other 5335.

Does anybody knows its origin, morocco perhaps?

What those numbers mean?

Are they real or a Tourist items?

Many thanks and regards from sunny spain !

OAKSP · 13th November 2006, 11:08 PM

Sorry I am new, I missed some pictures, here they are !

OAKSP · 13th November 2006, 11:10 PM

Once more, very difficult to me

Henk · 14th November 2006, 09:21 PM

These Koummiyas are from Morocco. As far as I can judge to the pictures of the blades these certainly don't look as tourist items to me.

I don't know what these numbers mean, perhaps the blades are remade from european military blades?

It is not my field of interest, just put in my two cents.

Marc · 15th November 2006, 09:07 AM

They do indeed seem reworked military sword blades. There's some Spanish patterns (end 19th and 20th c. , and quite a likely source for such blades for scrap) with these characteristic double fullers in the ricasso area, although the numbering strikes me as a bit odd. But I have to check some sources before speculating further.
In any event, if they're indeed salvaged sword blades, they've undoubtely been hot worked, given the curvature of these koummiyyas.
Nice exemplars.

Tim Simmons · 15th November 2006, 08:44 PM

These look like very nice examples. I am quite envious. I have been hunting high and low for one that I am happy to pay for. Nice

OAKSP · 16th November 2006, 07:59 AM

Hi guys !

Thanks for your replies !

There is another question wich comes to me very ofthen.

I have read somewhere that it is possible to observe on these kind of moroccan daggers the mark of identification for the tribe that belongs to the manufacturer.

Does anybody here have one with those markings, or can anybody tell us where is the mark located on those daggers?

Once again many thanks to all of you.

Marc · 20th November 2006, 09:28 AM

Well, nothing Really conclusive...
From the 1830's up to the last quarter of the 19th c. there's Spanish military patterns of swords and sabers which feature blades with this characteristic double-fullered ricasso. They're always officer's swords, never trooper's. As such, they're normally decorated with engravings and etchings in the ricasso. I don't know if there's other European patterns with such features, so where yours may exactly come from, is anyone's guess, but there was a certain trade of sword blades from the Toledo factory to foreign countries, that might include North Africa, a good part of which under Spanish jurisdiction by then.

That these come from a reworked European sword blade from the mid-late 19th c. is an hypothesis that holds some water. More than that, I can't say. The answer lies probably in the stamped numbers.

I’m sorry for not being able to help more.

Nice exemplars, by the way.

13th November 2006, 11:03 PM	#1
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	MOROCCAN? KOUMMIYA WITH SERIAL NUMBER ON BLADE Hello ! I have just bought my first Koummiyas. For me they are good pieces. The only thing that amazes me is that the blades on both have some numbers engraved, one is 602,5 or 6025 the other 5335. Does anybody knows its origin, morocco perhaps? What those numbers mean? Are they real or a Tourist items? Many thanks and regards from sunny spain ! Attached Images

13th November 2006, 11:08 PM	#2
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	more pictures Sorry I am new, I missed some pictures, here they are ! Attached Images

13th November 2006, 11:10 PM	#3
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	THE LAST PICTURE Once more, very difficult to me Attached Images

16th November 2006, 07:59 AM	#7
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	TRIBE IDENTIFICATION Hi guys ! Thanks for your replies ! There is another question wich comes to me very ofthen. I have read somewhere that it is possible to observe on these kind of moroccan daggers the mark of identification for the tribe that belongs to the manufacturer. Does anybody here have one with those markings, or can anybody tell us where is the mark located on those daggers? Once again many thanks to all of you.

14th November 2006, 09:21 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	These Koummiyas are from Morocco. As far as I can judge to the pictures of the blades these certainly don't look as tourist items to me. I don't know what these numbers mean, perhaps the blades are remade from european military blades? It is not my field of interest, just put in my two cents.

15th November 2006, 09:07 AM	#5
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	They do indeed seem reworked military sword blades. There's some Spanish patterns (end 19th and 20th c. , and quite a likely source for such blades for scrap) with these characteristic double fullers in the ricasso area, although the numbering strikes me as a bit odd. But I have to check some sources before speculating further. In any event, if they're indeed salvaged sword blades, they've undoubtely been hot worked, given the curvature of these koummiyyas. Nice exemplars.

15th November 2006, 08:44 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	These look like very nice examples. I am quite envious. I have been hunting high and low for one that I am happy to pay for. Nice

20th November 2006, 09:28 AM	#8
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Well, nothing Really conclusive... From the 1830's up to the last quarter of the 19th c. there's Spanish military patterns of swords and sabers which feature blades with this characteristic double-fullered ricasso. They're always officer's swords, never trooper's. As such, they're normally decorated with engravings and etchings in the ricasso. I don't know if there's other European patterns with such features, so where yours may exactly come from, is anyone's guess, but there was a certain trade of sword blades from the Toledo factory to foreign countries, that might include North Africa, a good part of which under Spanish jurisdiction by then. That these come from a reworked European sword blade from the mid-late 19th c. is an hypothesis that holds some water. More than that, I can't say. The answer lies probably in the stamped numbers. I’m sorry for not being able to help more. Nice exemplars, by the way.