Native North American War Club

RobertGuy · 23rd December 2015, 08:02 PM

Lookinfg for more information on this item although there may be none to be had. I suspect it is a pure tourist item. However it has a little age as my Father bought it home from Canada in 1943 after flight training. He was stationed at Malton, Ontario.

It is a small club totally covered in hide. Stone head covered in hide and secured to the haft with two leather straps which allows for free movement. Remnants of leather fringing, fur and bead-work present.

Stats:
Weight: 14.8oz (0.42kg)
Length overall: 14'' (35.5cm) Haft: 10.5'' (27cm)
Ball : 3.63'' x 2.78 x 1.73'' x'' (68.6cm) (9.23cm x 7.07cm x 4.4cm)

I would particularly like to know if it is representative of a particular tribe's work or just tourist tat. Is it likely to be any older than the 1940s. Unfortunately I never thought to ask Dad for more info while he was still with us.

Tim Simmons · 24th December 2015, 11:14 AM

Not necessarily tourist item. Check out what can be found at AMNH.

Pukka Bundook · 24th December 2015, 01:51 PM

Hello Robert,

Whether tourist or not I can't say, but I can say the hide covering the ball and shaft is brain -tanned, and looks by the thickness, (particularly on the shaft) to be moose hide.
The covering on the stone appears older than that on the shaft, and if it had been carried /handled a lot, the hide soon goes a bit shiny and greasy looking.
Can you see what lies under the wrap on the handle?
Also, Is the stone attached with rawhide to the handle.....under the brain-tanned covering?
If it Is attached in that manner, it may be an older piece that has been tidied up later on in life.
If the stone is only attached by the covering material, I think it would soon eat its way out if used much. Stitching would soon let go etc.

It's a nice looking item!
Merry Christmas!!!

Richard.
On looking at it again, it May be covered in rawhide, but has a "soft fuzzy' look to it. Is the covering spongy to the touch?..........or hard?

RobertGuy · 24th December 2015, 03:23 PM

Pukka, Tim Thanks
Hope this picture helps. The haft wrapping is applied direct to the wood. There is nothing under it except at the top where it covers the head strapping. The covering on the stone is shinier and smoother than the haft wrapping but I cannot tell if it a different type of hide/leather or just more worn. The colour seems to match exactly. The haft wrap is softer and spongier, a bit like thick felt. The strap passes completely over the stone head under the hide covering and the two ends pass down the haft for a couple of inches under the wrapping.

Pukka Bundook · 27th December 2015, 04:49 PM

Robert,

It sounds like the haft wrapping is indeed brain -tanned moose hide.
That on the stone Should be rawhide if it was for actual use, and should be sewn in place with sinew. This would make it very strong.
As the brain -tanned haft covering is still soft and spongy, it either hasn't had much use, or it is a more recent addition, Or, a newer made piece .
It looks 'right' though.

Can you smell smoke when sniffing the brain tan on the haft? If so, it is fairly recent.

Sorry for delay in replying!

Richard.

RobertGuy · 28th December 2015, 08:25 AM

Richard
Thanks for the help. I can't say I can smell anything much, I'm not sure I would after 72 years, much of it spent resting on my Grandmother's sideboard.
However I did take a close look at the stitching on the head and it is definitely thread, not sinew. I think that this probably confirms a tourist piece. I suspect the local tribes people were making these as fast as they could to sell to airmen desperate to find something 'cowboy or indian' to take home from their time in the Americas.

I would still like to know if there is anything about the piece that would say who was the likely maker, Cree, Blackfoot etc?

Tim Simmons · 28th December 2015, 09:11 AM

Trade goods haberdashery supplies were available on the plains and at reservation stores in the 19th century, certainly in the US so the same in CAD. Even if not used in war dose not have to tourist work. I suspect a lot of fine old weapon we have were never used in battle.

stekemest · 28th December 2015, 11:33 AM

Seems to be a 20th century piece, but those were, as has already been stated, not necessarily been made for tourists, but were also used at powwow. Many were just wallhangers though.

Pukka Bundook · 28th December 2015, 02:37 PM

Tim,

You make a very good point, re. many of our fine old weapons not being used in battle.
We do tend to attach a 'romantic' reason for any wear marks, nicks in blades and such like!
It's like the rather silly, "battlefield pick -up" we hear about these days.

Stekemest,
Yes, as you say, Could very well have been carried at powwows & such, where the members didn't normally bash each others brains out.

Robert,
Sorry, I forgot you stated in the OP that it came back with your dad in 1943!!
Smoke smell can be very strong, but not That strong!

23rd December 2015, 08:02 PM	#1
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Native North American War Club Lookinfg for more information on this item although there may be none to be had. I suspect it is a pure tourist item. However it has a little age as my Father bought it home from Canada in 1943 after flight training. He was stationed at Malton, Ontario. It is a small club totally covered in hide. Stone head covered in hide and secured to the haft with two leather straps which allows for free movement. Remnants of leather fringing, fur and bead-work present. Stats: Weight: 14.8oz (0.42kg) Length overall: 14'' (35.5cm) Haft: 10.5'' (27cm) Ball : 3.63'' x 2.78 x 1.73'' x'' (68.6cm) (9.23cm x 7.07cm x 4.4cm) I would particularly like to know if it is representative of a particular tribe's work or just tourist tat. Is it likely to be any older than the 1940s. Unfortunately I never thought to ask Dad for more info while he was still with us. Attached Images

24th December 2015, 03:23 PM	#4
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Pukka, Tim Thanks Hope this picture helps. The haft wrapping is applied direct to the wood. There is nothing under it except at the top where it covers the head strapping. The covering on the stone is shinier and smoother than the haft wrapping but I cannot tell if it a different type of hide/leather or just more worn. The colour seems to match exactly. The haft wrap is softer and spongier, a bit like thick felt. The strap passes completely over the stone head under the hide covering and the two ends pass down the haft for a couple of inches under the wrapping. Attached Images

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24th December 2015, 11:14 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Not necessarily tourist item. Check out what can be found at AMNH.

24th December 2015, 01:51 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hello Robert, Whether tourist or not I can't say, but I can say the hide covering the ball and shaft is brain -tanned, and looks by the thickness, (particularly on the shaft) to be moose hide. The covering on the stone appears older than that on the shaft, and if it had been carried /handled a lot, the hide soon goes a bit shiny and greasy looking. Can you see what lies under the wrap on the handle? Also, Is the stone attached with rawhide to the handle.....under the brain-tanned covering? If it Is attached in that manner, it may be an older piece that has been tidied up later on in life. If the stone is only attached by the covering material, I think it would soon eat its way out if used much. Stitching would soon let go etc. It's a nice looking item! Merry Christmas!!! Richard. On looking at it again, it May be covered in rawhide, but has a "soft fuzzy' look to it. Is the covering spongy to the touch?..........or hard?

27th December 2015, 04:49 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Robert, It sounds like the haft wrapping is indeed brain -tanned moose hide. That on the stone Should be rawhide if it was for actual use, and should be sewn in place with sinew. This would make it very strong. As the brain -tanned haft covering is still soft and spongy, it either hasn't had much use, or it is a more recent addition, Or, a newer made piece . It looks 'right' though. Can you smell smoke when sniffing the brain tan on the haft? If so, it is fairly recent. Sorry for delay in replying! Richard.

28th December 2015, 08:25 AM	#6
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Richard Thanks for the help. I can't say I can smell anything much, I'm not sure I would after 72 years, much of it spent resting on my Grandmother's sideboard. However I did take a close look at the stitching on the head and it is definitely thread, not sinew. I think that this probably confirms a tourist piece. I suspect the local tribes people were making these as fast as they could to sell to airmen desperate to find something 'cowboy or indian' to take home from their time in the Americas. I would still like to know if there is anything about the piece that would say who was the likely maker, Cree, Blackfoot etc?

28th December 2015, 09:11 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Trade goods haberdashery supplies were available on the plains and at reservation stores in the 19th century, certainly in the US so the same in CAD. Even if not used in war dose not have to tourist work. I suspect a lot of fine old weapon we have were never used in battle.

28th December 2015, 11:33 AM	#8
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Seems to be a 20th century piece, but those were, as has already been stated, not necessarily been made for tourists, but were also used at powwow. Many were just wallhangers though.

28th December 2015, 02:37 PM	#9
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Tim, You make a very good point, re. many of our fine old weapons not being used in battle. We do tend to attach a 'romantic' reason for any wear marks, nicks in blades and such like! It's like the rather silly, "battlefield pick -up" we hear about these days. Stekemest, Yes, as you say, Could very well have been carried at powwows & such, where the members didn't normally bash each others brains out. Robert, Sorry, I forgot you stated in the OP that it came back with your dad in 1943!! Smoke smell can be very strong, but not That strong!