Outstanding Georgian Shamshir

ariel · 11th July 2007, 03:10 AM

Just ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1332&rd=1&rd=1
Why Georgian?
Look at the handle: it widens up toward the crossguard. This is a typical Caucasian (Georgian) feature; Persian Shamshirs had handles of uniform thickness.
Also, the image of a wolf on a crossguard: very Georgian, too. Whether the crosses on the other side of the crossguard are of religious or a decorative character is uncertain.
Beautiful mechanical damascus: almost parallel lines near the edge and wildly wavy towards the back.
Question: is there any mechanical preference where to put lines vs. waves?

Jeff Pringle · 11th July 2007, 05:33 AM

Not so much a mechanical preference, it is a natural outgrowth of making the blade from a layered piece of metal. Forging induces waves of various sorts in the layers, which makes the sides of the blade look wave-y. It is usual to leave the edge fairly thick so it will withstand quench-induced stresses better. Once the blade is heat-treated, the edge is thinned down to where it will cut and this abrasion cuts across the layers, revealing the lines along the edge. You can tell how close to shape a blade was forged by how wide the zone of lines is. The effect is visible on wootz blades as well. There are ways of getting around the effect, but for most ethnographic blades the maker was not worried about it.

kai · 11th July 2007, 09:16 AM

Jeff, have you looked at the pics?

Ariel was asking about the pattern towards the back of the sword. The pattern there seems to be intentional and probably manipulated by the bladesmith to make it look prettier.

BTW, any guesses how risky it would be for the koftgari to remove the active rust present on the fittings?

Did you win this, Ariel?

Regards,
Kai

ariel · 11th July 2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Jeff, have you looked at the pics?

Ariel was asking about the pattern towards the back of the sword. The pattern there seems to be intentional and probably manipulated by the bladesmith to make it look prettier.

BTW, any guesses how risky it would be for the koftgari to remove the active rust present on the fittings?

Did you win this, Ariel?

Regards,
Kai

I did not bid. Even though it is gorgeous, I want one with a scabbard. High maintenance

ward · 11th July 2007, 02:01 PM

I find it extreamly doubtful that wolf was part of the original sword. probaly a 21st century addition. The rest of the sword is pretty questionable

ariel · 12th July 2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I find it extreamly doubtful that wolf was part of the original sword. probaly a 21st century addition. The rest of the sword is pretty questionable

I looked at it today on a better screen: you might be right about the wolf

However, I am wondering what made you question the rest of the sword? Looks perfectly fine to me. Please explain.

ward · 12th July 2007, 02:24 AM

the grips do not look correct or the rivets. also with the active rust especially inside the crossguard would not be suprised if the whole hilt was new then dipped in acid and let air dry. Anything coming over the internet from georgia is pretty questionable in the 1st place.

11th July 2007, 03:10 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Outstanding Georgian Shamshir Just ended. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1332&rd=1&rd=1 Why Georgian? Look at the handle: it widens up toward the crossguard. This is a typical Caucasian (Georgian) feature; Persian Shamshirs had handles of uniform thickness. Also, the image of a wolf on a crossguard: very Georgian, too. Whether the crosses on the other side of the crossguard are of religious or a decorative character is uncertain. Beautiful mechanical damascus: almost parallel lines near the edge and wildly wavy towards the back. Question: is there any mechanical preference where to put lines vs. waves?

11th July 2007, 02:01 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I find it extreamly doubtful that wolf was part of the original sword. probaly a 21st century addition. The rest of the sword is pretty questionable Last edited by ward; 11th July 2007 at 11:50 PM.

11th July 2007, 05:33 AM	#2
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Not so much a mechanical preference, it is a natural outgrowth of making the blade from a layered piece of metal. Forging induces waves of various sorts in the layers, which makes the sides of the blade look wave-y. It is usual to leave the edge fairly thick so it will withstand quench-induced stresses better. Once the blade is heat-treated, the edge is thinned down to where it will cut and this abrasion cuts across the layers, revealing the lines along the edge. You can tell how close to shape a blade was forged by how wide the zone of lines is. The effect is visible on wootz blades as well. There are ways of getting around the effect, but for most ethnographic blades the maker was not worried about it.

11th July 2007, 09:16 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,218	Jeff, have you looked at the pics? Ariel was asking about the pattern towards the back of the sword. The pattern there seems to be intentional and probably manipulated by the bladesmith to make it look prettier. BTW, any guesses how risky it would be for the koftgari to remove the active rust present on the fittings? Did you win this, Ariel? Regards, Kai

12th July 2007, 02:24 AM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	the grips do not look correct or the rivets. also with the active rust especially inside the crossguard would not be suprised if the whole hilt was new then dipped in acid and let air dry. Anything coming over the internet from georgia is pretty questionable in the 1st place.