Who am I

[tuancd]

Hi everybody

Dear Henk
I'll be glad to know of a second elephant headed god. Actually right or left it does not really matters. It shows how the different ways to the aim. The swastikas counter or clock-wise is the Buddhist representation of the same thing.

For the broken tusk, I've been told by the Guimet conservator that one night after a long day Ganesh had eaten so much that he was lost and asked his way to the moon. The moon fool in the sky laugh at him and told him to wait until morning. Furious Ganesh took one of his fang and thrown it at the moon. That's why we have the climbing crescent of moon and since he missed declining one.

I like also the Mahâbhârata related story, thanks Ian.

For the handle, I really think it's Ganesh. But I can't trace any other picture or sculpture of a Ganesh like that. That's why I asked.

Thanks to all and best regards
Cedric

[spiral]

I suppose the other potentialy likely God with a trunk & tusks is of course the Makara!

Spiral..


To quote from..

http://www.khandro.net/mysterious_makaras1.htm

Which has illustrations & pictures.


The Sanskrit word makara can refer to the amphibian animal we know as the crocodile. However, it also designates a mythological water creature that resembles a croc in only one way -- it has a long proboscis [nose-like organ.] It is doubtful that someone would recognize in images and sculptures of makaras any crocodilian he or she had ever seen.

For example, in the temple complex of Khajuraho in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, the temple-guardian makara sculptures resemble sleek sorts of seals. They are chubby, smooth-coated creatures with short, re-curved trunks.

Now the trunk is the identifying characteristic of the elephant, and as we have seen, elephants are associated with the rain clouds that presage a plentiful harvest. Hence, they are linked with Lakshmi, the Indian goddess of prosperity. This calendar art image shows how the elephant is related to the mythological water creature called makara.



Named "river horse" by the Greeks, the hippopotamus also may be the prototype for the makaras that accompany Ganga, goddess of heavenly sweet waters. Or, if ever there actually existed an animal resembling the makara in the ancient Indian environment, the gentle, vegetarian manatee (Trichechus manatus) might even be a candidate.

In astrology, the makara is often translated Water Horse, and corresponds to the western astrological sign of Capricorn. It is serpentine or seal-like, and its elephantine head is often used as an architectural decoration or as a structural bracket.

In India, Makara-Shankranti occurs at the terminal cusp of Capricorn indicating that the sun is now entering the tenth house of the Zodiac and heading towards the northern hemisphere -- the winter solstice has passed. It is celebrated in the middle of the month of January and is regarded as a kind of New Year. Unfortunately, it is the custom for many Hindu families to sacrifice animals at this time, often one for each member. In the state of Kerala, a holy flame called Makara Jyoti seems to appear in the skies at the prominent temple of Sabari Malai on that day.

Water horse translated into German is wasserpferd, but that term is used for the walrus. The one aspect of that great sea mammal that recalls the makara is its characteristic posture with its head in the air while its lower body is in the water. On the other hand, look at the elephant seal: If there is any "water horse" in nature, this is the candidate that seems to bear the closest resemblance.

Mugging

In Hindi, a crocodile is called magar. We sometimes see this written as "mugger." The Indian salt water crocodile is among the largest of the world's 23 species of crocodilians, a group that includes alligators and gavials. The snout of some gavials (more properly known as gharial, for the ghara or pot at the end of the mature male's snout that may serve as an amplification chamber for sounds emitted during courtship,) is long and very slender, and up-curving. It is amongst the largest of crocodilians, averaging between 12 and 15 feet. Perhaps those are reasons why the makara of art and architecture seems like an aquatic elephant

[Rick]

Hi Spiral , I am by no means an expert in Hindu iconography . I have seen my fair share of depictions of them and have yet to see a Makara with any human features from Indo .

<standard caveats apply>

[tom hyle]

The features Ian mentions are in fact almost exactly what we have in the first handle, except mirror imaged/flip-flopped; the tusk is in the left hand, the trunk in the right. BTW if the trunk represents the "ohm" it would make sense for it to emerge from the mouth. The mouse is on the head, rather than ridden upon. The two rather than more arms seems part of Indonesian vs. Hindoo art.
The ears on the first one don't look elephantine at all. They are way too small, and the wrong shape. However, the winglike/featherlike appendage on the head dress(?) do occupy the space an elephant's ears would.
#2 is a bigger picture now. Still can't tell what's up with the left hand though. Small ears on that one.

[Jens Nordlunde]

There seem to be some confusion about the looks of the Ganesha, there are 32 forms, have a look here http://www.templenet.com/beliefs/ganesha_icon.htm

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

There seem to be some confusion about the looks of the Ganesha, there are 32 forms, have a look here http://www.templenet.com/beliefs/ganesha_icon.htm

True Jens but these are Indian forms not Balinese and that is the sticking point here I believe . Iconography changes from culture to culture , even if the cultures may share the same religion the deities may be depicted differently .

All of the Ganesha figures depicted in this discussion have only two arms ; are we then to assume that none of these are Ganesha because of that ?

Here are 3 close ups taken from Cedric's pictures .

The first , a side view shows the continuity of line of the trunk and what (IMO) is undoubtedly a tusk .

The second , a front view shows the first segmentation line between the tusks ; if this is a beak there would be a point there instead of a horizontal line .

The third picture shows (again IMO) a rat's head with the long snout and small teeth .

I think it's time for someone to come up with pictures of an unmistakeable Garuda eating a naga Balinese hilt form , or a Makara with human legs and arms .

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Rick

... those are Indian forms not Balinese and that is the sticking point here I believe. Iconography changes from culture to culture , even if the cultures may share the same religion the deities may be depicted differently.

Excellent point Rick, and it makes our interpretation of these culture-specific deity forms so difficult. We need a cultural historian from within the host culture of this specimen to interpret this particular form. What may have started centuries ago as a Ganesha representation has morphed into something (or someone) that is barely recognisable as the original. Certainly this form is not how Ganesha's representation has developed over time in more mainstream Hindu settings.