Pos Greek Cartridge box for ID please (Ilias and Eftihis are you there?)

Atlantia · 25th September 2010, 08:34 PM

Hi all,
I decided that I rather like these cartridge boxes and wanted a European one rather than the Turkish ones I had.
Specifically hoping for a Greek one (Palaska)

Hopefully this is mission acomplished?
Perhaps our resident experts (Ilias, Eftihis, and others of course) can help and hopefully identify the designs?

Best
Gene

eftihis · 27th September 2010, 04:28 PM

Hi Gene,
I am not expert in this field, but the design and the birds, reminds designs from epirus in North Greece. These were cast, so there are modern copies arround also, but yours seem to havve some wear and tear. Thats all i can say my friend.

Atlantia · 27th September 2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Hi Gene,
I am not expert in this field, but the design and the birds, reminds designs from epirus in North Greece. These were cast, so there are modern copies arround also, but yours seem to havve some wear and tear. Thats all i can say my friend.

Hi Eftihis
Thanks for the input. I hope it is a real one, it looks to have signs of real age and use as you say

Thaks for the clue to the designs, I'll do some searches.
Here
are some more pics.
best
Gene

Matchlock · 27th September 2010, 09:00 PM

Hi Gene,

I am quite certain that this is either Greek or Balkan, 19th century.

Best,
Michael

Atlantia · 27th September 2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Gene,

I am quite certain that this is either Greek or Balkan, 19th century.

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for coming in on this one. Do the designs have any significance to you?
They are quite distinctive with the eagles and central figure......... I have high hopes that it could be identified.

Best
Gene

ilias · 28th September 2010, 03:07 PM

Hi Atlantia.
You really got a very nice palaska.
I will agree with Eftihis about the possible origin from Epirus in North Greece.
About the design one possible explanation is:
The woman figure possibly a "goddess" or ''Greece'' sits on war trophies and holds at each hand Amalthea's horn.
I wish I could help more.
All the best.
Ilias

Atlantia · 28th September 2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilias

Hi Atlantia.
You really got a very nice palaska.
I will agree with Eftihis about the possible origin from Epirus in North Greece.
About the design one possible explanation is:
The woman figure possibly a "goddess" or ''Greece'' sits on war trophies and holds at each hand Amalthea's horn.
I wish I could help more.
All the best.
Ilias

Hi Ilias
Thanks for your help.
Your explanation of the design is exatly the kind of thing I was hoping for.
Is Greece often represented by a woman, like Britain by Britannia?
Britannia is also often represented in similar fashion: War trophies, shield, spear and Lion.
Do the eagles have a special meaning for Greece?
I know of course of the double headed eagle symbol and isn't there a connection between zeus and two eagles?
Anyway, as you can imagine I am very pleased that this seems to have a good chance of being Greek. It's origin was unidentified by the dealer and I made the assumption that it was (partly because I really wanted a Greek one!)
Best
Gene

Matchlock · 28th September 2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Michael,

Thanks for coming in on this one. Do the designs have any significance to you?
They are quite distinctive with the eagles and central figure......... I have high hopes that it could be identified.

Best
Gene

Hi Gene,

Jeeping creepers, I've seen plenty of those patrons in sales catalogs but I can't find any at the moment. The web is not helpful either: no useful entries for 'oriental/greek/brass/patron/firearms' on Firefox. I did do some research, believe me.

I will hang on though and leaf thru more important sales catalogs. Sorry but it's not my field of expertise.

Eftihis, could you possibly contribute some reference pics from a book or catalog on Greek or oriental art? These patrons are not rare, there are plenty of them in the market ...

Gene, please have patience.

A dead tired good night to the sunny (?

) South of England from a cold, windy and rainy Bavaria -

and of course best as always,
Michael

Matchlock · 28th September 2010, 10:10 PM

Hi Gene,

Can't seem to find any sleep right now so I kept worrying about your query.

The figure represented on your patron (and zillions of similar objects), to my inexperienced eye, seems to be a kind of ancient oriental goddess.

Just an idea anyway.

Almost snoring away ...
Michael

Atlantia · 28th September 2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Gene,

Jeeping creepers, I've seen plenty of those patrons in sales catalogs but I can't find any at the moment. The web is not helpful either: no useful entries for 'oriental/greek/brass/patron/firearms' on Firefox. I did do some research, believe me.

I will hang on though and leaf thru more important sales catalogs. Sorry but it's not my field of expertise.

Eftihis, could you possibly contribute some reference pics from a book or catalog on Greek or oriental art? These patrons are not rare, there are plenty of them in the market ...

Gene, please have patience.

A dead tired good night to the sunny (?

) South of England from a cold, windy and rainy Bavaria -

and of course best as always,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for looking, I really do appreciate it.

And to be honest, it's raining well here as well.

Best
Gene

Matchlock · 28th September 2010, 11:35 PM

Hi Gene,

You seem to sometimes be some kind of a nightowl too ...

Good night from sleepless at Bavaria,
Michael

Atlantia · 29th September 2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Gene,

You seem to sometimes be some kind of a nightowl too ...

Good night from sleepless at Bavaria,
Michael

LOL, its true! Even now I'm a dad and Alex makes my sleep pattern even more random, I still can't resist looking on the forums when I'm near the PC!

Matchlock · 29th September 2010, 04:03 PM

You're a very lucky and happy nightowl being a dad!

Atlantia · 29th September 2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

You're a very lucky and happy nightowl being a dad!

Thanks buddy, I am indeed.

Sylektis · 14th February 2011, 08:52 PM

And some more...

Atlantia · 14th February 2011, 09:28 PM

Hi Sylektis,

Great selection there!
And so many slight variations of the design that I have. Do you know any more about it? I wonder if it is a military 'pattern' or just very popular?

Best
Gene

Rick · 15th February 2011, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Gene,

Can't seem to find any sleep right now so I kept worrying about your query.

The figure represented on your patron (and zillions of similar objects), to my inexperienced eye, seems to be a kind of ancient oriental goddess.

Just an idea anyway.

Almost snoring away ...
Michael

Just wondering ....

Athena perhaps ?

Hello ..

Hello ...?

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz .

Sylektis · 16th February 2011, 06:26 PM

It is not clear.
Maybe an ancient goddess of vegetation, or Mermaid (the sister of Alexander the Great), or Demetra (Ceres), or Athena or all together.
(Yannoula Kaplani Palaskes & Medoularia from Vassilis Korkolopoulos collection 2000)

The most of them are bronze casts but you can find at least a silver one in the collection above.

25th September 2010, 08:34 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Pos Greek Cartridge box for ID please (Ilias and Eftihis are you there?) Hi all, I decided that I rather like these cartridge boxes and wanted a European one rather than the Turkish ones I had. Specifically hoping for a Greek one (Palaska) Hopefully this is mission acomplished? Perhaps our resident experts (Ilias, Eftihis, and others of course) can help and hopefully identify the designs? Best Gene Last edited by Atlantia; 25th September 2010 at 09:45 PM.

14th February 2011, 08:52 PM	#15
Sylektis Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 135	And some more... Attached Images

16th February 2011, 06:26 PM	#18
Sylektis Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 135	It is not clear. Maybe an ancient goddess of vegetation, or Mermaid (the sister of Alexander the Great), or Demetra (Ceres), or Athena or all together. (Yannoula Kaplani Palaskes & Medoularia from Vassilis Korkolopoulos collection 2000) The most of them are bronze casts but you can find at least a silver one in the collection above. Attached Images

27th September 2010, 04:28 PM	#2
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 500	Hi Gene, I am not expert in this field, but the design and the birds, reminds designs from epirus in North Greece. These were cast, so there are modern copies arround also, but yours seem to havve some wear and tear. Thats all i can say my friend.

27th September 2010, 09:00 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Gene, I am quite certain that this is either Greek or Balkan, 19th century. Best, Michael

28th September 2010, 03:07 PM	#6
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Hi Atlantia. You really got a very nice palaska. I will agree with Eftihis about the possible origin from Epirus in North Greece. About the design one possible explanation is: The woman figure possibly a "goddess" or ''Greece'' sits on war trophies and holds at each hand Amalthea's horn. I wish I could help more. All the best. Ilias

28th September 2010, 10:10 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Gene, Can't seem to find any sleep right now so I kept worrying about your query. The figure represented on your patron (and zillions of similar objects), to my inexperienced eye, seems to be a kind of ancient oriental goddess. Just an idea anyway. Almost snoring away ... Michael

28th September 2010, 11:35 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Gene, You seem to sometimes be some kind of a nightowl too ... Good night from sleepless at Bavaria, Michael

29th September 2010, 04:03 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	You're a very lucky and happy nightowl being a dad!

14th February 2011, 09:28 PM	#16
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Sylektis, Great selection there! And so many slight variations of the design that I have. Do you know any more about it? I wonder if it is a military 'pattern' or just very popular? Best Gene