PARANG PANDIT - Page 2

Mytribalworld · 9th May 2009, 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=VVV]Unfortunately I don't have any answers to your questions and Dajak has left the forum.

( but is sometimes still watching, isn't it Ben?)

VVV · 10th May 2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

(snip) Your pandat with the holes drilled in it can be very old I think and I see some similarity with designs of the malay Anak Wali ( see spirit of wood) so maybe closer to the source? ( just a guess)

Arjan.

Hi Arjan,

Thanks for the description on the use of the Land Dayak swords.
I don't get the resemblence with an Anak Wali however?
Please develop this idea when you find time.

Michael

asomotif · 1st March 2011, 11:51 PM

ca. 1875 picture/drawing. studio made

tom hyle · 9th March 2011, 12:07 AM

OMG what a cool sword!!!!! I have so much to say I'm liable to forget 1/2 of it plus I'm in a room with friends to distract me.
OMG OMG OMG
OK
OK calm down, Tom!
Beautiful swords!
I find a resemblance to the wierd big Naga sword with the iron handle and integral crossguard; no? Are these super-rare and perhaps ceremonial, like those?
What relation of Nagas and Dyaks, ethno-historically? Other than the handle, seems to be a pretty straitforward parang latok in concept, and so in use? But note how it's dangling "backwards" from the man's hand; is this a method of use or is this how it's carried?
Are the crossguards used for control like the "finger" on a pinegas?
OMG!!!!!!!

When cutting with parang latok/parang lading, as with other swords that curve, bend, or lean back (kilij is particularly similar, while this is often spoken/written of in N America in reference to Japanese swords) the back-wards angle to the blade causes it to pull thru the target with a slashlike action, even when the hand action is a simple "hack".

Battara · 10th March 2011, 03:26 AM

Wonderful pieces!

STill don't understand how they were used however.

asomotif · 11th March 2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

!
I find a resemblance to the wierd big Naga sword with the iron handle and integral crossguard; no? Are these super-rare and perhaps ceremonial, like those?
What relation of Nagas and Dyaks, ethno-historically? Other than the handle, seems to be a pretty straitforward parang latok in concept, and so in use? But note how it's dangling "backwards" from the man's hand; is this a method of use or is this how it's carried?
Are the crossguards used for control like the "finger" on a pinegas?
.

Yes they indeed do resemble the naga swords, after I found a (rare) example on Oriental arms. But I do'nt know if there is a connection between these regions.

tom hyle · 13th March 2011, 05:19 AM

In both cases there is a certain resemblance to swords from the same nations with more ordinary hilts (ie. Parang latok/lading and Naga Dao). In both cases, not only is the handle made of iron/steel, and integral to the blade, but there is the addition of the crossguard, and also in both cases there is an altered step-down or offset to the transition from blade to grip.
I think something is going on here; are these all high status/ritual swords? They seem it?.......

Coming in from the side, appropos of nothin; the sharply rectangular cross-section of the grip is reminiscent of that on "machete Phillipiana" (spelling?)
But is the grip on the Naga one rectangular, too? It looks more comfortably rounded?

Mytribalworld · 13th March 2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

OMG what a cool sword!!!!! I have so much to say I'm liable to forget 1/2 of it plus I'm in a room with friends to distract me.
OMG OMG OMG
OK
OK calm down, Tom!
Beautiful swords!
I find a resemblance to the wierd big Naga sword with the iron handle and integral crossguard; no? Are these super-rare and perhaps ceremonial, like those?
What relation of Nagas and Dyaks, ethno-historically? Other than the handle, seems to be a pretty straitforward parang latok in concept, and so in use? But note how it's dangling "backwards" from the man's hand; is this a method of use or is this how it's carried?
Are the crossguards used for control like the "finger" on a pinegas?
OMG!!!!!!!

When cutting with parang latok/parang lading, as with other swords that curve, bend, or lean back (kilij is particularly similar, while this is often spoken/written of in N America in reference to Japanese swords) the back-wards angle to the blade causes it to pull thru the target with a slashlike action, even when the hand action is a simple "hack".

In overall shape there's seems to be a relation between the Naga sword and the Borneo pandat.
In use the Nagasword is for me,( I just exercised with it) the most ergonomic type. It wouldn't suprise me if the bone or antler top at the pandat handle was actually once of iron( for both hand use) but developped later to smaller proportions.
There seems relation between the Naga and Indonesian tribes and there are comparables in their culture like headhunting, feast of merit,megaliths,Y-posts,tattooing etc

Arjan

tom hyle · 11th June 2011, 06:32 AM

I found out that pandit is a Hindoo priest or religious instructor of some kind.

VVV · 8th January 2012, 09:43 PM

Here is another pandat I have found.
It has resembling motifs on the scabbard as the others but the end piece on this is ivory, which I haven't seen before.

Michael

Maurice · 10th January 2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Here is another pandat I have found.
It has resembling motifs on the scabbard as the others but the end piece on this is ivory, which I haven't seen before.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thank you for sharing images of this wonderfull piece!
So rare and you have so many of them.
Besides the ones I've seen in museumcollections, I've only held three in my hands.....and the best one of those three is in your collection for a while now (the one with hair).

Regards,
Maurice

VVV · 12th January 2012, 11:16 AM

I don't have the one with hair, it used to be Ben's.
I know a couple of other forumites also have pandat.
Please also post them here so we can have them as references.

Michael

Maurice · 12th January 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

I don't have the one with hair, it used to be Ben's.
I know a couple of other forumites also have pandat.
Please also post them here so we can have them as references.

Michael

Sorry for the mix-up...

Good idea...I can't post one here, because I don't have one.
Ofcourse I would love to see the pandats other forumites have in their collection.

Maurice

Maurice · 18th April 2013, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

I can't post one here, because I don't have one.

I'm really proud that I'm able now to post my first pandat in my collection!
Finally I was able to add such very rare Borneo piece....

I've also posted a drawing of a pandat with a very similar scabbard, depicted in Henry Ling Roth's book (2nd part).

Maurice

VVV · 19th April 2013, 05:42 AM

A great piece!
And the first one in this thread of the other main category of Pandat.

Michael

Battara · 20th April 2013, 02:49 AM

Congratulations! A very nice example.

Maurice · 20th April 2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

And the first one in this thread of the other main category of Pandat.

Were the different pandats used by different landdayak tribes?
I never studied the pandats before, but now I have to...

But is it me or could I be right that the "little" ones look older and are made less developed as the ones you for instance have?

PS I've found a very nice one of my category in the Tropenmuseum Amsterdam, also with similar scabbard, but than partly filled with tin.

Maurice

VVV · 20th April 2013, 09:42 AM

I don't think that age and style necessarily have to go together in this case because were used simultaneously.
Shelford is the only source I have found describing the difference between pandats used by different tribes. As usual, you have to be careful with his statements based on that he did not examine that many parang when he wrote his article.

Michael

PS Probably there were much more adornments on the pandits, like tin and feathers, when they were in actual use.

Maurice · 20th April 2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

I don't think that age and style necessarily have to go together in this case because were used simultaneously.
Shelford is the only source I have found describing the difference between pandats used by different tribes. As usual, you have to be careful with his statements based on that he did not examine that many parang when he wrote his article.

Michael

PS Probably there were much more adornments on the pandits, like tin and feathers, when they were in actual use.

I agree with you about Shelford fully, as we discussed recently.
But if Shelford would be right, it should mean that mine "has to be" a Bennah land-dayak pandat.
It's amazing how the quality of the forged blades differ between the better forged Sidin land-dayak pandats, in contrast with the Bennah's.
The Sidin's look much more evolved.

About the feathers and tin adornments: Yes they must had a lot more adornments. When looking at the museumpieces for instance, which still have been preserved better as in most private collections.
Don't forget the "pitfalls" and big hook we discussed earlier

.
I added an image of a interesting one in the Bronbeek museum.

Maurice

Cakszz · 30th August 2023, 11:29 AM

I've just acquired new unique pandat blade, with silver decorative. Any Idea?

1st March 2011, 11:51 PM	#33
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	ca. 1875 picture/drawing. studio made Attached Images

9th March 2011, 12:07 AM	#34
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	OMG what a cool sword!!!!! I have so much to say I'm liable to forget 1/2 of it plus I'm in a room with friends to distract me. OMG OMG OMG OK OK calm down, Tom! Beautiful swords! I find a resemblance to the wierd big Naga sword with the iron handle and integral crossguard; no? Are these super-rare and perhaps ceremonial, like those? What relation of Nagas and Dyaks, ethno-historically? Other than the handle, seems to be a pretty straitforward parang latok in concept, and so in use? But note how it's dangling "backwards" from the man's hand; is this a method of use or is this how it's carried? Are the crossguards used for control like the "finger" on a pinegas? OMG!!!!!!! When cutting with parang latok/parang lading, as with other swords that curve, bend, or lean back (kilij is particularly similar, while this is often spoken/written of in N America in reference to Japanese swords) the back-wards angle to the blade causes it to pull thru the target with a slashlike action, even when the hand action is a simple "hack". Last edited by tom hyle; 9th March 2011 at 02:50 PM.

8th January 2012, 09:43 PM	#40
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is another pandat I have found. It has resembling motifs on the scabbard as the others but the end piece on this is ivory, which I haven't seen before. Michael Attached Images

30th August 2023, 11:29 AM	#50
Cakszz Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Balikpapan, Indonesia Posts: 31	Unique Pandat Blade I've just acquired new unique pandat blade, with silver decorative. Any Idea? Attached Images

9th May 2009, 03:51 PM	#31
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	[QUOTE=VVV]Unfortunately I don't have any answers to your questions and Dajak has left the forum. ( but is sometimes still watching, isn't it Ben?)

10th March 2011, 03:26 AM	#35
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Wonderful pieces! STill don't understand how they were used however.

13th March 2011, 05:19 AM	#37
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	In both cases there is a certain resemblance to swords from the same nations with more ordinary hilts (ie. Parang latok/lading and Naga Dao). In both cases, not only is the handle made of iron/steel, and integral to the blade, but there is the addition of the crossguard, and also in both cases there is an altered step-down or offset to the transition from blade to grip. I think something is going on here; are these all high status/ritual swords? They seem it?....... Coming in from the side, appropos of nothin; the sharply rectangular cross-section of the grip is reminiscent of that on "machete Phillipiana" (spelling?) But is the grip on the Naga one rectangular, too? It looks more comfortably rounded?

11th June 2011, 06:32 AM	#39
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I found out that pandit is a Hindoo priest or religious instructor of some kind.

12th January 2012, 11:16 AM	#42
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I don't have the one with hair, it used to be Ben's. I know a couple of other forumites also have pandat. Please also post them here so we can have them as references. Michael

19th April 2013, 05:42 AM	#45
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	A great piece! And the first one in this thread of the other main category of Pandat. Michael

20th April 2013, 02:49 AM	#46
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Congratulations! A very nice example.

20th April 2013, 09:42 AM	#48
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I don't think that age and style necessarily have to go together in this case because were used simultaneously. Shelford is the only source I have found describing the difference between pandats used by different tribes. As usual, you have to be careful with his statements based on that he did not examine that many parang when he wrote his article. Michael PS Probably there were much more adornments on the pandits, like tin and feathers, when they were in actual use.