Guianan Macana Club for comment.

Atlantia · 30th July 2011, 04:14 PM

Excuse the pictures they seem to make it 'glow' with colour. It's actually much more subdued and the bindings are somewhat browned with age. Lots of indications of age, dryness of the wood, patina, small age splits etc.

Weight: 735g. Length: 36cm. Bound with hand spun plant fibres (raw cotton I'd guess!)
From a reputable source who acquired it directly from an old Dutch collection.
Original collector described it as:
"British Guyana, Indian war club (Macana) C.1900."
I'd be interested to know if the date is possible to verify?
I know these don't show up too often, so I thought you might like to see it.

Atlantia · 30th July 2011, 04:16 PM

A couple of other examples (pictures) I managed to find (not mine).

Tim Simmons · 30th July 2011, 04:54 PM

I need one of those. Yes that is cotton. Amazon clubs have either cotton, sisel or palm fiber {raphia}

Tim Simmons · 30th July 2011, 05:20 PM

This site is really helpful.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22

Scroll down to (NMAI o58277.000) belaying pin style club. I think this may identify this club 20 inches long.

fearn · 30th July 2011, 05:32 PM

Hi Tim,

Neat club!

You may want to look up kanaima . This club is similar to one used on dark shamans (see the pic in this article). Or it may just be a war club. Regardless, there may be more angles to this.

Best,

F

Tim Simmons · 30th July 2011, 05:40 PM

Thanks, ordered and on its way.

Atlantia · 30th July 2011, 06:59 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks I'll read through that in a mo

Any thoughts on the decoration?

Hi Fearn ,

The club in the picture is like mine, not Tim's isn't it?
Are you mixing us up? I can understand you assuming any club thread is Tims

KuKulzA28 · 30th July 2011, 07:36 PM

Did the Caribbean Caribs use the same style club? I heard they called theirs a "boutou"??

Just curious

fearn · 30th July 2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Tim,

Thanks I'll read through that in a mo

Any thoughts on the decoration?

Hi Fearn ,

The club in the picture is like mine, not Tim's isn't it?
Are you mixing us up? I can understand you assuming any club thread is Tims

Yep, I got confused.

Anyway, AFAIK, people in Guyana do use those square headed clubs on the heads of known or suspected Kanaima sorcerers. That's why I suggested reading Neil Whitehead's book. It's pretty gruesome stuff, and I suspect there's a reason his author pic shows him holding one of those clubs.

F

Atlantia · 30th July 2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Yep, I got confused.

Anyway, AFAIK, people in Guyana do use those square headed clubs on the heads of known or suspected Kanaima sorcerers. That's why I suggested reading Neil Whitehead's book. It's pretty gruesome stuff, and I suspect there's a reason his author pic shows him holding one of those clubs.

F

Jesus! So even a modern one might have actually killed someone!

Thats a bit unsettling.

Notice how they stand up on their own? Like a little wooden bottle of bad karma.

fearn · 30th July 2011, 09:12 PM

Well, if the edge of the macana isn't dented, I wouldn't worry about it.

That said, if you read about what the kanaima do, it makes sense. It's sort of like Van Helsing holding up a stake in his author picture, except that the kanaima are real.

F

Tim Simmons · 30th July 2011, 09:36 PM

Jessica Van Helsing---- Stephin Beacham---- dracula ad 1972, I say!!!!!

Atlantia · 30th July 2011, 10:46 PM

The design has one dot in each section on three of the sides, but on the fourth it's different.

Atlantia · 2nd August 2011, 03:08 PM

Have investigated the bindings and there is no damage, just 'bunching up', so all it needed was to be carefully teased back into place.
I think it's looking quite good now, what do you think?

Robert · 2nd August 2011, 04:52 PM

Great club Gene, and with those square corners and its weight a real head knocker !!

It really does make a big difference in how it looks now that the binding has been put back in order. Good work and a very nice addition to your ever growing collection.

Robert

fearn · 2nd August 2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

The design has one dot in each section on three of the sides, but on the fourth it's different.

Is this the "this face towards enemy mark?

F

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Great club Gene, and with those square corners and its weight a real head knocker !!

It really does make a big difference in how it looks now that the binding has been put back in order. Good work and a very nice addition to your ever growing collection.

Robert

Thanks mate

Definately wouldn't want to feel it on my head!! The mrs doesn't like it! Says she gets a 'bad vibe' off of it!

Best
Gene

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Is this the "this face towards enemy mark?

F

Hi Fearn

LOL!! I should have known.

Best
Gene

VANDOO · 3rd August 2011, 04:49 AM

CONGRADULATIONS!!

THESE ARE HARD TO COME BY, I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE FOR SALE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE AND IT WAS A VERY POOR EXAMPLE. YOURS IS FIRST CLASS AND WITH GOOD PATINA AND UNUSUAL TO HAVE BINDINGS IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF OTHER EXAMPLES AND FORMS FROM GUYANA BRAZIL.

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

CONGRADULATIONS!!

THESE ARE HARD TO COME BY, I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE FOR SALE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE AND IT WAS A VERY POOR EXAMPLE. YOURS IS FIRST CLASS AND WITH GOOD PATINA AND UNUSUAL TO HAVE BINDINGS IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF OTHER EXAMPLES AND FORMS FROM GUYANA BRAZIL.

Hi Vandoo,

Very kind of you to say so

Thank you.
Do you have any thoughts on the painted markings?
Best
Gene

spiral · 3rd August 2011, 02:54 PM

Rare piece Gene! I wonder if these are made of Greenheart? Thats from around that region & incredibly hard. Is that a tree borer or termite hole in it? or something from a dead knot?

It looks in amazing condition, good find. Ive never seen one before.

Spiral

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Rare piece Gene! I wonder if these are made of Greenheart? Thats from around that region & incredibly hard. Is that a tree borer or termite hole in it? or something from a dead knot?

It looks in amazing condition, good find. Ive never seen one before.

Spiral

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks mate.
I have a bit of a weakness for buying weapons if they are of a type I've not owned before.
This macana is a first for me, although I have to admit that my first impression of these is of a half finished chair-leg and I am finding it difficult to 'like'

Also, I do like to bring things that are not often seen to 'show and tell'!
Being a member here is clearly bad for my bank balance!

There is a knot on one side, have a loook at the holes, I'm really not sure?

Best
Gene

fearn · 3rd August 2011, 05:41 PM

Actually, joking aside, those multiple dots may be there to tell the wielder to have that face away from the strike, not facing it (they should see the multiple dots). That way, the knot and the bug hole are compressed if the club hits, not stretched, if the club is used.

F

VANDOO · 3rd August 2011, 05:59 PM

THE CLUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OF THE TRUNK OF A SMALL TREE NOTE THE GROWTH RINGS IN THE END. ONE SIDE HAS A KNOT AND SOME DAMMAGE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THE KNOT DOWN THAT WAS TOO DEEP TO SAND OUT. THE TWO HOLES COME FROM SOME SORT OF BEETLE LARVA WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL. THE END APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH SOME SORT OF CRUDE SAW OR PERHAPS WORKED DOWN WITH A FILE DEFINITELY NOT CHOPPED WITH AN AX OR MACHETE. THE TRIBAL MARKINGS COULD BE DENOTING THE TRIBE, FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL OR EVEN A CHARM TO PROTECT AND BRING VICTORY TO ITS OWNER.
IF IT NEVER GROWS ON YA LET ME KNOW AS I WOULD DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED.

spiral · 3rd August 2011, 08:25 PM

Cheers Gene, Vandoos sewed it up for you already.

Spiral

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Actually, joking aside, those multiple dots may be there to tell the wielder to have that face away from the strike, not facing it (they should see the multiple dots). That way, the knot and the bug hole are compressed if the club hits, not stretched, if the club is used.

F

What a great idea

Thanks Fearn

Atlantia · 3rd August 2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE CLUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OF THE TRUNK OF A SMALL TREE NOTE THE GROWTH RINGS IN THE END. ONE SIDE HAS A KNOT AND SOME DAMMAGE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THE KNOT DOWN THAT WAS TOO DEEP TO SAND OUT. THE TWO HOLES COME FROM SOME SORT OF BEETLE LARVA WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL. THE END APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH SOME SORT OF CRUDE SAW OR PERHAPS WORKED DOWN WITH A FILE DEFINITELY NOT CHOPPED WITH AN AX OR MACHETE. THE TRIBAL MARKINGS COULD BE DENOTING THE TRIBE, FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL OR EVEN A CHARM TO PROTECT AND BRING VICTORY TO ITS OWNER.
IF IT NEVER GROWS ON YA LET ME KNOW AS I WOULD DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED.

Excellent analysis Vandoo!
That beetle larva must have 'chops' like a router! Wouldn't want to wake up with one in my ear

Thanks mate, I must admit that a few people have expressed an interest in it, I'll definately let you all know when I get bored with it.

Best
Gene

Tim Simmons · 31st August 2011, 06:39 PM

This club finished on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1706847312...84.m1423.l2649

Origin could be many places but could also be related to the clubs in this link.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22

37cm long and 400g much the same as many knobkerry but lacking lever action. What I find intersting is that there does seem to be a tradition somewhere here? My example almost identical in form is 50cm long and 700g. Just curious!

Tim Simmons · 31st August 2011, 07:05 PM

I might be on a wild goose chase but I think the wood may be a link? There is a black element in the wood, seen in the clubs of the link, in mine and also I think seen in the pommel of the example Gene shows us.

fearn · 1st September 2011, 04:13 AM

Or it's a species of shillelagh. I agree that it could be from almost anywhere.

Best,

F

30th July 2011, 04:14 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Guianan Macana Club for comment. Excuse the pictures they seem to make it 'glow' with colour. It's actually much more subdued and the bindings are somewhat browned with age. Lots of indications of age, dryness of the wood, patina, small age splits etc. Weight: 735g. Length: 36cm. Bound with hand spun plant fibres (raw cotton I'd guess!) From a reputable source who acquired it directly from an old Dutch collection. Original collector described it as: "British Guyana, Indian war club (Macana) C.1900." I'd be interested to know if the date is possible to verify? I know these don't show up too often, so I thought you might like to see it. Attached Images

30th July 2011, 04:16 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	A couple of other examples (pictures) I managed to find (not mine). Attached Images Last edited by Atlantia; 30th July 2011 at 05:41 PM.

30th July 2011, 05:20 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	This site is really helpful. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22 Scroll down to (NMAI o58277.000) belaying pin style club. I think this may identify this club 20 inches long. Attached Images

30th July 2011, 09:36 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Jessica Van Helsing---- Stephin Beacham---- dracula ad 1972, I say!!!!! Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 30th July 2011 at 09:59 PM.

30th July 2011, 10:46 PM	#13
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The design has one dot in each section on three of the sides, but on the fourth it's different. Attached Images

30th July 2011, 04:54 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	I need one of those. Yes that is cotton. Amazon clubs have either cotton, sisel or palm fiber {raphia}

30th July 2011, 05:32 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, Neat club! You may want to look up kanaima . This club is similar to one used on dark shamans (see the pic in this article). Or it may just be a war club. Regardless, there may be more angles to this. Best, F

30th July 2011, 05:40 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Thanks, ordered and on its way.

30th July 2011, 06:59 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Tim, Thanks I'll read through that in a mo Any thoughts on the decoration? Hi Fearn , The club in the picture is like mine, not Tim's isn't it? Are you mixing us up? I can understand you assuming any club thread is Tims

30th July 2011, 07:36 PM	#8
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Did the Caribbean Caribs use the same style club? I heard they called theirs a "boutou"?? Just curious

30th July 2011, 09:12 PM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Well, if the edge of the macana isn't dented, I wouldn't worry about it. That said, if you read about what the kanaima do, it makes sense. It's sort of like Van Helsing holding up a stake in his author picture, except that the kanaima are real. F

2nd August 2011, 03:08 PM	#14
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Have investigated the bindings and there is no damage, just 'bunching up', so all it needed was to be carefully teased back into place. I think it's looking quite good now, what do you think? Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 04:52 PM	#15
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Great club Gene, and with those square corners and its weight a real head knocker !! It really does make a big difference in how it looks now that the binding has been put back in order. Good work and a very nice addition to your ever growing collection. Robert

3rd August 2011, 04:49 AM	#19
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS!! THESE ARE HARD TO COME BY, I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE FOR SALE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE AND IT WAS A VERY POOR EXAMPLE. YOURS IS FIRST CLASS AND WITH GOOD PATINA AND UNUSUAL TO HAVE BINDINGS IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF OTHER EXAMPLES AND FORMS FROM GUYANA BRAZIL. Attached Images

3rd August 2011, 02:54 PM	#21
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Rare piece Gene! I wonder if these are made of Greenheart? Thats from around that region & incredibly hard. Is that a tree borer or termite hole in it? or something from a dead knot? It looks in amazing condition, good find. Ive never seen one before. Spiral

3rd August 2011, 05:41 PM	#23
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Actually, joking aside, those multiple dots may be there to tell the wielder to have that face away from the strike, not facing it (they should see the multiple dots). That way, the knot and the bug hole are compressed if the club hits, not stretched, if the club is used. F

3rd August 2011, 05:59 PM	#24
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE CLUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OF THE TRUNK OF A SMALL TREE NOTE THE GROWTH RINGS IN THE END. ONE SIDE HAS A KNOT AND SOME DAMMAGE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THE KNOT DOWN THAT WAS TOO DEEP TO SAND OUT. THE TWO HOLES COME FROM SOME SORT OF BEETLE LARVA WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL. THE END APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH SOME SORT OF CRUDE SAW OR PERHAPS WORKED DOWN WITH A FILE DEFINITELY NOT CHOPPED WITH AN AX OR MACHETE. THE TRIBAL MARKINGS COULD BE DENOTING THE TRIBE, FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL OR EVEN A CHARM TO PROTECT AND BRING VICTORY TO ITS OWNER. IF IT NEVER GROWS ON YA LET ME KNOW AS I WOULD DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED.

3rd August 2011, 08:25 PM	#25
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Cheers Gene, Vandoos sewed it up for you already. Spiral

31st August 2011, 06:39 PM	#28
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	This club finished on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1706847312...84.m1423.l2649 Origin could be many places but could also be related to the clubs in this link. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22 37cm long and 400g much the same as many knobkerry but lacking lever action. What I find intersting is that there does seem to be a tradition somewhere here? My example almost identical in form is 50cm long and 700g. Just curious! Attached Images

31st August 2011, 07:05 PM	#29
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	I might be on a wild goose chase but I think the wood may be a link? There is a black element in the wood, seen in the clubs of the link, in mine and also I think seen in the pommel of the example Gene shows us. Attached Images

1st September 2011, 04:13 AM	#30
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Or it's a species of shillelagh. I agree that it could be from almost anywhere. Best, F