Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th February 2020, 09:55 AM   #1
carlos
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 679
Default Chinese sword? Maybe pirate? Thanks

I just received this sword, seller told me sword is chinese, and the hilt seems chinese to me too.
Maybe pirate? Seems a cutlass
Thanks in advance
Carlos
Attached Images
     
carlos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2020, 03:55 PM   #2
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,420
Default

Doesn't look Chinese to me...
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2020, 08:53 PM   #3
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 555
Default

And it looks republic period Chinese to me... and I could be so wrong. Looking forward to more on this one.
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2020, 09:24 PM   #4
Kubur
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,778
Default

For me the hilt is a combination of two European swords
European swords have also stingray skin.
Not Chinese to me
Cutlass and naval sword probably
Pirate... Do you have a skull engraved on the guard?
Impossible to say
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2020, 04:22 AM   #5
Philip
Member
 
Philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 631
Default

I agree with Kubur -- this is a non-Chinese composite, in fact I see nothing specifically Asiatic about it at all.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2020, 05:10 AM   #6
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,654
Default

If you mention 'pirate', you get my attention-

I agree that the components of the guard and knucklebow appear European, but something about the grip strikes me as differing from pieces I have held. Composite? Undoubtedly, but in this circumstance, not in a bad way. This isn't a put-together made to deceive or for resale. It appears to be a real cutlass-type sword of the "private purchase, i.e. not a naval sword type). Pirate? Who knows. Without provenance, it might or might not be. The extra spacer used to tighten the hilt has been seen on some Spanish colonial types.

I know shagreen/fish skin was used on Euro swords, but this grip is a shape more often seen on colonial-type swords. I think that's why some of us are questioning Asian. Could this have been a captured British cutlass rehilted by Malay pirates? I've seen exactly that from a m1840 cutlass cut down and refitting, complete with a Malay grip. Is this sword one such? Again, who knows! This is the frustrating work of collecting composite naval and colonial-type swords.

What we can deduce is that it is a post-1800 naval type sword constructed of materials to be used as a working weapon. Fits the description of many boarding-type swords (see Gilkerson, Boarders Away, private purchase swords). An interesting sword, in any case...
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2020, 06:19 AM   #7
Philip
Member
 
Philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
If you mention 'pirate', you get my attention-

Could this have been a captured British cutlass rehilted by Malay pirates? I've seen exactly that from a m1840 cutlass cut down and refitting, complete with a Malay grip. .


Does the shape of the grip on the present example give any hint as to Malay style or craftsmanship? Is this shape identical or similar to that on the M1840 that you have seen? Might you have a pic of that sword to share for comparison purposes? As you stated, the presence of the rayskin covering is a feature of some European hilts as well.

This is indeed an intriguing piece and your comments about the possibility of bespoke or ad hoc creation as a non-regulation weapon are well worth considering.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2020, 04:02 PM   #8
Ren Ren
Member
 
Ren Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Russia, Moscow
Posts: 144
Default

Also, I do not see any Chinese signs.
In my opinion, the hilt is similar to the European carriage small sword or a hunting hanger of the 18th century. Especially onion-shaped tops.
The blade comes from a completely different subject
Ren Ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2020, 10:51 PM   #9
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,654
Default

Well, I spent half the day searching my old threads here of the years to no avail. In any case, this subject won't ever be closed because this piece is indeed an ersatz sword. I still think it is a cutlass-type for maritime use, but we sometimes see what we want to see, right?

Here are a couple of old threads, however, dealing with Spanish colonial, African colonial and Spanish-Filipino examples of such swords that I spoke of...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+hanger+Spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+spanish+dagger

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...l+chinese+sword
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2020, 05:36 PM   #10
Peter Andeweg
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Vlissingen, Netherlands
Posts: 5
Default

To me it's a European hanger which may be used in colonial duty and had a locally rewinded hilt.

Best regards, Peter
Peter Andeweg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:52 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.