Janggelan Hilt

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2020, 04:36 AM

David, 40 or 50 years ago I think I might have agreed with you that this hilt form is not really a janggelan, but then, I would not have had any other Indonesian name to to give it. However, in recent years it seems to me that most people do currently refer to this form as janggelan, and again, I do not know another name for it. Personally I'm happy enough to go with the flow on this one.

Sajen · 12th January 2021, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, 40 or 50 years ago I think I might have agreed with you that this hilt form is not really a janggelan, but then, I would not have had any other Indonesian name to to give it. However, in recent years it seems to me that most people do currently refer to this form as janggelan, and again, I do not know another name for it. Personally I'm happy enough to go with the flow on this one.

Not only in "Persona Hulu Keris" is this hilt style described as janggelan, also in other books like in Suhartono Rahardjos "ragam Hulu Keris" is this style described as janggelan.

I also have some hilts of this style in my collection. Like Alan I guess that the hilt from IP is from ebony, I've never seen one from horn.

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2021, 11:27 PM

Yeah, it is possible to see a face in some of them, and again, yeah, other published sources do call them janggelan.

Personally, I'd like a different name for them, but I've never heard one.

Sajen · 13th January 2021, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, it is possible to see a face in some of them, and again, yeah, other published sources do call them janggelan.

Personally, I'd like a different name for them, but I've never heard one.

Yes, I also would like a different name for them, personally I see a apparent resemblance to floral putra satu hilts.

Regards,
Detlef

Interested Party · 13th January 2021, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

YES!!! It has haunted me because I can find no reference to it. I snapped some pictures of these things a month or two ago but could not find a common thread in them that made a post i though was worthy of bringing before the group. I wanted to ask if they were ancestors related to the patra on planar hilts, Kala, or rasasaka peeping out of the forest. Though sometimes the figures remind me of arachnids.

Jean · 13th January 2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

No Sajen, I agree with you, and this is why some (mostly Western) people call them vegetation god... Nice collection by the way!

David · 13th January 2021, 03:15 PM

Well, as someone who seems to be especially prone to pareidolia i also see faces in the vegetal design of these hilts. I suppose it is debatable if these faces are intentional or not, but to me it seems likely that as Islamic restrictions on depicting human form came into play this was the result.

Sajen · 13th January 2021, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I suppose it is debatable if these faces are intentional or not, but to me it seems likely that as Islamic restrictions on depicting human form came into play this was the result.

Agree with you David.

Regards,
Detlef

Athanase · 13th January 2021, 08:56 PM

Very nice collection Detlef

I love this type of hilt.

Sajen · 14th January 2021, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

Very nice collection Detlef

I love this type of hilt.

Thank you Séverin!

I have three more in the collection, will post pictures at the weekend.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 13th January 2021, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

No Sajen, I agree with you, and this is why some (mostly Western) people call them vegetation god... Nice collection by the way!

Thank you Jean!

It's a hilt style I like very much.

Regards,
Detlef

23rd October 2020, 04:36 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	David, 40 or 50 years ago I think I might have agreed with you that this hilt form is not really a janggelan, but then, I would not have had any other Indonesian name to to give it. However, in recent years it seems to me that most people do currently refer to this form as janggelan, and again, I do not know another name for it. Personally I'm happy enough to go with the flow on this one.

12th January 2021, 11:27 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Yeah, it is possible to see a face in some of them, and again, yeah, other published sources do call them janggelan. Personally, I'd like a different name for them, but I've never heard one.

13th January 2021, 03:15 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,044	Well, as someone who seems to be especially prone to pareidolia i also see faces in the vegetal design of these hilts. I suppose it is debatable if these faces are intentional or not, but to me it seems likely that as Islamic restrictions on depicting human form came into play this was the result.

13th January 2021, 08:56 PM	#9
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 405	Very nice collection Detlef I love this type of hilt.