Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th July 2009, 12:11 PM   #1
Hatumesh
Member
 
Hatumesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 24
Default Pls comment on this Yataghan

Hello all,
Please comment and give some information on this piece.
Thanks you.
Attached Images
            
Hatumesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2009, 01:15 PM   #2
Hatumesh
Member
 
Hatumesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 24
Default

Zifir,
You said that with a clear picture you might be able to translate the inscription on this Yataghan. Here are better photos (I hope).
Thanks a lot.
Gadi.
Attached Images
    
Hatumesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2009, 09:23 PM   #3
Valjhun
Member
 
Valjhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 692
Default

Nice piece. old repair on the handle and very nice silverwork on scabbard. Not my style, but still nice.
Valjhun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2009, 06:56 PM   #4
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Repair, schmepear...
It is dated 1219 =1804. We should all look that good at 205 :-)
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2010, 04:55 PM   #5
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
Default

Sorry Hatumesh,
I have been looking at the inscription for some time, I could not even make a single word out of it. I saw one or two similar yatağans with the same type of engraved inscriptions, I could not read them either.
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 08:43 AM   #6
Yannis
Member
 
Yannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
Default

I believe that this is a composite piece (not old repairs). It has old a new parts. I have seen similar coming from Bulgaria last years but it can be made anywhere there are a lot pieces from old yataghans
Yannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 01:56 PM   #7
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
Sorry Hatumesh,
I have been looking at the inscription for some time, I could not even make a single word out of it.(
your deception it's not complet
because, what "ariel" though to be a date, in fact it's
just an illegible writting, my translater is FORMAL
I got a strong argumentation with her about that subject,
and she refuse to modify her judgement
I was sharing "areil" point of view ...
conclusion;
- it's not writting in Turkish
- it's not writting in Arabic

it's what ?? Farsi ?? ... Urdu ? (joke)

à +

Dom
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 11:59 PM   #8
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default

Here is a yataghan with what appears to be a blade from the same workshop - notice the very similar decoration http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=403

Emanuel
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 12:11 AM   #9
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel
Here is a yataghan with what appears to be a blade from the same workshop - notice the very similar decoration http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=403

Emanuel
Hi
again, it's not Arabic

à +

Dom
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 01:38 AM   #10
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel
Here is a yataghan with what appears to be a blade from the same workshop - notice the very similar decoration http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=403

Emanuel
I am not sure it is the same workshop: this decoration is pretty standard. If one looks in the Astvatsaturyan's book, there are at least 10-15 virtually identical examples.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 06:40 AM   #11
Yannis
Member
 
Yannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
Default

The un-readable script is not necessary a minus. It could be plus. I have read that there were in ottoman era some unsuccessful tries to write balkan languages (greek, bulgarian etc) with arabic letters. There was also the opposite. Turkish words with greek letters.
It is common also to see unreadable scripts because the smith did know how to write, he was just copied another blade or a piece of paper
Yannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 02:01 PM   #12
Hotspur
Member
 
Hotspur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 481
Default

The round mark with a short tail has been mentioned to me as a more general mark with the meaning "Ya Ali" and can be found on both blades and apparently firearms as well. I would appreciate more background on that myself, as I have an yataghan with the mark and place the blades and arms with the ya ali as Turkish. In some further reading, the phrase meant as a plea to bravery or strength. So, apparently not the mark of one maker but more of a general statement. In pursuing mine, I had concluded it to be dated roughly 1800 and of northern Turkey in origin.

Below is my blade.

Cheers

GC
Attached Images
   
Hotspur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 05:48 PM   #13
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspur
The round mark with a short tail has been mentioned to me as a more general mark with the meaning "Ya Ali"
Hi "Hotspur"
frankly sorry, if what you are going to read will disappoints you
but in the circle, there's only one (1) word : ALI ... no more

Best regards

à +

Dom
Attached Images
 
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2010, 12:30 AM   #14
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
your deception it's not complet
because, what "ariel" though to be a date, in fact it's
just an illegible writting, my translater is FORMAL
I got a strong argumentation with her about that subject,
and she refuse to modify her judgement
I was sharing "areil" point of view ...
conclusion;
- it's not writting in Turkish
- it's not writting in Arabic

it's what ?? Farsi ?? ... Urdu ? (joke)

à +

Dom
I am not definitely sure that the inscription is not Turkish, only I was unable to read it. There is still possiblity that it may be Turkish.
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2010, 02:28 AM   #15
Hotspur
Member
 
Hotspur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Hi "Hotspur"
frankly sorry, if what you are going to read will disappoints you
but in the circle, there's only one (1) word : ALI ... no more

Best regards

à +

Dom
Hi Dom,

I am not dissapointed at all except to maybe point out that it was mentioned me as a meaning for the mark on arms, not a literal translation of the character itself. Also mentioned here, as a good many that have been listed with this mark and have done so to inticate it as the maker of the blade and not the purpose of the mark.

Cheers

Glen C
Hotspur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2010, 08:14 AM   #16
Yannis
Member
 
Yannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
Default

I used the damn dictionary. The word is illegible not un-readable But I know I have your sympathy
Yannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.