Collection goals and strategies – do you have them?

Jussi M. · 19th September 2010, 10:30 PM

A picture tells a thousand words they say. Above pictured is Reinhold Messner, the legendary mountaineer par excellence. Mountaineering they say can become addictive. – What is then a mountaineer but an adrenaline fed collector of peaks who is trying to surpass his and in some occasions his fellow mountaineers previous achievements? What does this have to do with kerises?

That is a good and a valid question.

If we parallel mountaineering onto other collecting - even and specifically the collecting of kerises as we read this here in the Keris Warung Kopi - we can compare and contrast these two activities and see where our approaches either differ or not differ. It is the wise mountaineer who carefully plans ahead his attempts and follows a clear set of rules and laws that he has laid out before the task he is partaking. Why? - because it is in his best interest to do so in order for him to be able to actually land (pun intended) the goal he originally set to accomplish. Keys herein are:

- plan ahead
- rules & laws
- best interest
- reaching goals

For some of us collecting kerises is about actual collecting per se. For some the acquired pieces they have have other roles to fulfill. Despite the reasoning behind your interest, how well does your method of acquisition compare with that of the professional climber and the aforementioned keys?

Do you have clear goals? Do you have rules and laws that you actually do follow in your own interest? Are you actually moving towards these goals?

There are multiple reasons why people are interested in kerises and neither of them are any better or worse than others. I am not implying that lacking clear and concise goals, acquisition strategies and rules of engagement is in any way better than not having them. – Many like to live on the here and now and jump on the occasion when it does present itself; their collections thus becoming living entities that have a life of their own. – If one feels his interest in the keris bears fruit never mind in what form it is not anyone else's business to judge otherwise.

Yes, so? - what is my point then?

I wrote this because I am interested to hear if you alike me, are guessing whether you actually do follow the path you originally set to follow when you began traveling in the keris land? – And, if your answer is yes, is it so because you either never had a set path (goal(s)) to begin with, or, is it because you have lost track of what it was that you originally set to accomplish in the first place?

Thanks,

J.

VANDOO · 19th September 2010, 10:53 PM

MY STYLE OF COLLECTING SEEMS TO BE MORE LIKE THE FREE CLIMBER WHO SEES A COOL LOOKING ROCK FACE AND LOOKS IT OVER AND PLANS A START AND A ROUTE AND THEN GOES AFTER IT. WHICH IS TO SAY I BUY A KERIS IF I LIKE ITS LOOKS AND FEEL AND CAN AFFORD IT.
LIKE THE FREE CLIMBER I MAY FALL BUT UNLIKE HIM I DONT DIE BUT CONTINUE TO LIVE AND LEARN.

I WOULD RECOMEND THE MORE PLANNED AND LOGICAL METHOD TO COLLECTING KERIS ESPECIALLY IF INVESTMENT IS THE GOAL. MY STYLE IS A BIT SCATTER BRAINED AND SURELY NOT WELL RESEARCHED AND PLANNED TO PROCEED IN A STRUCTURED WAY BUT ITS FUN.

Jussi M. · 19th September 2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

MY STYLE IS A BIT SCATTER BRAINED AND SURELY NOT WELL RESEARCHED AND PLANNED TO PROCEED IN A STRUCTURED WAY BUT ITS FUN.

In other words it works for you

Thanks,

J.

khalifah muda · 21st September 2010, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

In other words it works for you

Thanks,

J.

And its heartening if no one near you understand what you are doing....

David · 21st September 2010, 04:14 AM

Sorry, i guess i just don't jive with the mountain climbing analogy. It's a bit too competitive and conquering for my take on keris collection.
That said i do believe i do have some vague goals. For instance there are certain types of keris i would most definitely like to see make their way into my collection eventually. I would like a good tajong example one day and a nice keris panjang. There are a few other special dhapurs and pamors that interest me that i would like to obtain. While i would like to have a well rounded collection, i am neither rushing nor pushing for it. A keris either calls to me or it doesn't, and sometimes the ones that call are quite unexpected.

My biggest goal however is to hopefully come to a greater understanding of the cultural and spiritual connection of the keris to time (era), place (both seen and unseen) and the individual and societial mind. Hands on examples seem to help this study.

A. G. Maisey · 21st September 2010, 05:35 AM

This is a good point for discussion, Jussi.

When I was very, very much younger than I am now, I had a very sharply defined strategy.

I didn't think it involved wanting much.

Only every keris that was ever made.

At the time I did not understand what my strategy involved.

I never realized the objective of my strategy, but up until about age 30 I did buy every keris I encountered, and that I could afford. That resulted in a massive accumulation of keris, which I began to get rid of sometime in my thirties, and by the time I was in my early 40's that accumulation had shrunk into double figures.

Then I began to really learn about keris. From age 14 through to about age 42 I was really only in kindergarten, learning my ABC --- yeah, OK, I'm a slow learner.

As I learnt more , I got rid of even more keris, while at the same time I bought more keris.

I'd well and truly dropped my original strategy by then, and my strategy at that time was to buy every good quality piece I could afford. Trouble was I couldn't stick with this strategy, because I'd be tempted by minor unusual pieces that often totally lacked quality.

After this phase I started to specialize. I had realized that I simply could not afford to buy the very best of what I came across, so the chase for improvement in quality was shelved, and I began concentrating on archaic pieces. Because good archaic pieces are so very, very scarce, this meant that I could go maybe 4 or 5 years without buying a single good archaic piece --- and I still got sidetracked by those minor unusual pieces.

As things stand at the present time I do not have any strategy at all for collecting, because I no longer consider myself a collector. For a little while now I have been in the process of reducing my collection to a manageable level. I will still buy the occasional piece if it grabs me in some way, but there is no longer any sort of defined plan, it’s a matter of if I see something I really like for some reason or another, and I can afford it, I'll buy it. But purchases are very few and far between.

My primary goal for some time has been the collection of understanding and knowledge, rather than the collection of actual keris.

Some years ago I knew a fellow who was one of the world's great authorities on Japanese swords. When I met him he had a very large collection of swords, which he relentlessly reduced in number during the time I knew him. As he reduced his collection, he would very occasionally buy an additional sword, which could easily be sold a few months later. His stated aim was to have a "collection of one sword, and that sword will be perfect".

I'm not quite as radical as this, but my thoughts do tend in that general direction.

David · 21st September 2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Some years ago I knew a fellow who was one of the world's great authorities on Japanese swords. When I met him he had a very large collection of swords, which he relentlessly reduced in number during the time I knew him. As he reduced his collection, he would very occasionally buy an additional sword, which could easily be sold a few months later. His stated aim was to have a "collection of one sword, and that sword will be perfect".

I'm not quite as radical as this, but my thoughts do tend in that general direction.

While i completely understand this i just don't think i could every do it with keris. There is just too many variations and aesthetics.

A. G. Maisey · 21st September 2010, 06:24 AM

Maybe it depends upon what one wants.

The fellow I am talking about really did not need to see Japanese swords to have a reference, everything was already in his head. I'm talking about somebody who had won signature reading competitions against Japanese. What he wanted was just one perfect sword, not a library full of reference swords.

He no longer needed them.

PenangsangII · 21st September 2010, 07:20 AM

objective of collecting keris?

Sometime it is not our choice.
Acquiring, keeping and maintaining keris is a responsibility to me though I started out as a silat practitioner, it gradually became what David had said earlier. In the process, I changed my objective and direction a few times like Alan, and now stuck with spiritual responsibility.

This may change when I opt to become "moksa" someday...... (moksa in term of stopping anything to do with keris

)

Moshah · 21st September 2010, 06:10 PM

Well I am still in my 20s (ahem...late 20's) so I figure that I will spend a lot of money and time making mistakes and collecting rubbish until I can understand much better about keris.

I gather the knowledge from hands on, books, references, forums etc...but the best lesson would be the experiences of paying premium prices for junks...

Still a newcomer like me would always have this kind of problem but the learning curve that i undertaken, for instance thru this forum, would actually saves me a lot of money and time.

I also believe keris can be a good investment, like some of you pointed out. The best investment that came out from keris to me is that it teaches me that history is surprisingly interesting...it's not as boring as when it was in school

ferrylaki · 23rd September 2010, 06:01 AM

I've been collecting keris for 3 years or 4. and I always looking forward to see a different keris every day. I really think that I've reach My state of addiction with this keris matter.
Once Alan said to me. keris is addictive...well I feel it right now.
but the passion of collecting keris is fade away these days.
i found that there are so many hight quality keris surround me that I recently not afford to buy.
From now on, being able to see and to hold a good quality keris personally and study it would be the greatest concern to me.

19th September 2010, 10:30 PM	#1
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Collection goals and strategies – do you have them? A picture tells a thousand words they say. Above pictured is Reinhold Messner, the legendary mountaineer par excellence. Mountaineering they say can become addictive. – What is then a mountaineer but an adrenaline fed collector of peaks who is trying to surpass his and in some occasions his fellow mountaineers previous achievements? What does this have to do with kerises? That is a good and a valid question. If we parallel mountaineering onto other collecting - even and specifically the collecting of kerises as we read this here in the Keris Warung Kopi - we can compare and contrast these two activities and see where our approaches either differ or not differ. It is the wise mountaineer who carefully plans ahead his attempts and follows a clear set of rules and laws that he has laid out before the task he is partaking. Why? - because it is in his best interest to do so in order for him to be able to actually land (pun intended) the goal he originally set to accomplish. Keys herein are: - plan ahead - rules & laws - best interest - reaching goals For some of us collecting kerises is about actual collecting per se. For some the acquired pieces they have have other roles to fulfill. Despite the reasoning behind your interest, how well does your method of acquisition compare with that of the professional climber and the aforementioned keys? Do you have clear goals? Do you have rules and laws that you actually do follow in your own interest? Are you actually moving towards these goals? There are multiple reasons why people are interested in kerises and neither of them are any better or worse than others. I am not implying that lacking clear and concise goals, acquisition strategies and rules of engagement is in any way better than not having them. – Many like to live on the here and now and jump on the occasion when it does present itself; their collections thus becoming living entities that have a life of their own. – If one feels his interest in the keris bears fruit never mind in what form it is not anyone else's business to judge otherwise. Yes, so? - what is my point then? I wrote this because I am interested to hear if you alike me, are guessing whether you actually do follow the path you originally set to follow when you began traveling in the keris land? – And, if your answer is yes, is it so because you either never had a set path (goal(s)) to begin with, or, is it because you have lost track of what it was that you originally set to accomplish in the first place? Thanks, J. Last edited by Jussi M.; 19th September 2010 at 11:04 PM.

19th September 2010, 10:53 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MY STYLE OF COLLECTING SEEMS TO BE MORE LIKE THE FREE CLIMBER WHO SEES A COOL LOOKING ROCK FACE AND LOOKS IT OVER AND PLANS A START AND A ROUTE AND THEN GOES AFTER IT. WHICH IS TO SAY I BUY A KERIS IF I LIKE ITS LOOKS AND FEEL AND CAN AFFORD IT. LIKE THE FREE CLIMBER I MAY FALL BUT UNLIKE HIM I DONT DIE BUT CONTINUE TO LIVE AND LEARN. I WOULD RECOMEND THE MORE PLANNED AND LOGICAL METHOD TO COLLECTING KERIS ESPECIALLY IF INVESTMENT IS THE GOAL. MY STYLE IS A BIT SCATTER BRAINED AND SURELY NOT WELL RESEARCHED AND PLANNED TO PROCEED IN A STRUCTURED WAY BUT ITS FUN.

21st September 2010, 04:14 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Sorry, i guess i just don't jive with the mountain climbing analogy. It's a bit too competitive and conquering for my take on keris collection. That said i do believe i do have some vague goals. For instance there are certain types of keris i would most definitely like to see make their way into my collection eventually. I would like a good tajong example one day and a nice keris panjang. There are a few other special dhapurs and pamors that interest me that i would like to obtain. While i would like to have a well rounded collection, i am neither rushing nor pushing for it. A keris either calls to me or it doesn't, and sometimes the ones that call are quite unexpected. My biggest goal however is to hopefully come to a greater understanding of the cultural and spiritual connection of the keris to time (era), place (both seen and unseen) and the individual and societial mind. Hands on examples seem to help this study.

21st September 2010, 05:35 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	This is a good point for discussion, Jussi. When I was very, very much younger than I am now, I had a very sharply defined strategy. I didn't think it involved wanting much. Only every keris that was ever made. At the time I did not understand what my strategy involved. I never realized the objective of my strategy, but up until about age 30 I did buy every keris I encountered, and that I could afford. That resulted in a massive accumulation of keris, which I began to get rid of sometime in my thirties, and by the time I was in my early 40's that accumulation had shrunk into double figures. Then I began to really learn about keris. From age 14 through to about age 42 I was really only in kindergarten, learning my ABC --- yeah, OK, I'm a slow learner. As I learnt more , I got rid of even more keris, while at the same time I bought more keris. I'd well and truly dropped my original strategy by then, and my strategy at that time was to buy every good quality piece I could afford. Trouble was I couldn't stick with this strategy, because I'd be tempted by minor unusual pieces that often totally lacked quality. After this phase I started to specialize. I had realized that I simply could not afford to buy the very best of what I came across, so the chase for improvement in quality was shelved, and I began concentrating on archaic pieces. Because good archaic pieces are so very, very scarce, this meant that I could go maybe 4 or 5 years without buying a single good archaic piece --- and I still got sidetracked by those minor unusual pieces. As things stand at the present time I do not have any strategy at all for collecting, because I no longer consider myself a collector. For a little while now I have been in the process of reducing my collection to a manageable level. I will still buy the occasional piece if it grabs me in some way, but there is no longer any sort of defined plan, it’s a matter of if I see something I really like for some reason or another, and I can afford it, I'll buy it. But purchases are very few and far between. My primary goal for some time has been the collection of understanding and knowledge, rather than the collection of actual keris. Some years ago I knew a fellow who was one of the world's great authorities on Japanese swords. When I met him he had a very large collection of swords, which he relentlessly reduced in number during the time I knew him. As he reduced his collection, he would very occasionally buy an additional sword, which could easily be sold a few months later. His stated aim was to have a "collection of one sword, and that sword will be perfect". I'm not quite as radical as this, but my thoughts do tend in that general direction.

21st September 2010, 06:24 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Maybe it depends upon what one wants. The fellow I am talking about really did not need to see Japanese swords to have a reference, everything was already in his head. I'm talking about somebody who had won signature reading competitions against Japanese. What he wanted was just one perfect sword, not a library full of reference swords. He no longer needed them.

21st September 2010, 07:20 AM	#9
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	objective of collecting keris? Sometime it is not our choice. Acquiring, keeping and maintaining keris is a responsibility to me though I started out as a silat practitioner, it gradually became what David had said earlier. In the process, I changed my objective and direction a few times like Alan, and now stuck with spiritual responsibility. This may change when I opt to become "moksa" someday...... (moksa in term of stopping anything to do with keris )

21st September 2010, 06:10 PM	#10
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Well I am still in my 20s (ahem...late 20's) so I figure that I will spend a lot of money and time making mistakes and collecting rubbish until I can understand much better about keris. I gather the knowledge from hands on, books, references, forums etc...but the best lesson would be the experiences of paying premium prices for junks... Still a newcomer like me would always have this kind of problem but the learning curve that i undertaken, for instance thru this forum, would actually saves me a lot of money and time. I also believe keris can be a good investment, like some of you pointed out. The best investment that came out from keris to me is that it teaches me that history is surprisingly interesting...it's not as boring as when it was in school

23rd September 2010, 06:01 AM	#11
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	I've been collecting keris for 3 years or 4. and I always looking forward to see a different keris every day. I really think that I've reach My state of addiction with this keris matter. Once Alan said to me. keris is addictive...well I feel it right now. but the passion of collecting keris is fade away these days. i found that there are so many hight quality keris surround me that I recently not afford to buy. From now on, being able to see and to hold a good quality keris personally and study it would be the greatest concern to me.