Siamese Swords: what are they?

ariel · 23rd May 2006, 06:06 PM

In the Egerton's book, there is a list of Siamese weapons (p.94). Dha or Darb is not mentioned, although there are several mentions of Dha in the following list ( pp.95-95) and all are attributed to "Burmah".

Among the Siamese weapons Egerton mentions:
"Dass, the long curved sword 18 to 40 inches long"

"Kassi, a long sabre from foreighners"

"Ngao, a sort of curved knife or sword, 18 inches long, with handle about 6 feet long"
In all the discussions of our esteemed Dhafia, I have never heard of those.
Was Egerton mistaken? Name or transliteration incorrect? Are they real? If yes, any examples that can be shown here?

Andrew · 23rd May 2006, 06:31 PM

I think our Thai members will be able to address this better than I, but I won't let that stop me from trying.

"Dha" is a Burmese term for sword (or knife, depending on the suffix applied). We tend to use it generically to refer to the swords and knives of Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.

As I understand it, the closest corresponding Thai terms are "daab", and "krabi", depending on the type of weapon.

Egerton was probably trying to be specific and accurate as he only refers to Burmese weapons as dha. The spelling of his Siamese weapon names may simply be a function of translation into English letters. "Dass" could be "daab" and "kassi" could be "krabi".

Egerton's description of a "ngao" sounds like a pole-arm of some sort.

dennee · 23rd May 2006, 08:04 PM

The "ngao" sounds rather like a mak.

Tim Simmons · 23rd May 2006, 08:07 PM

Pak-A-Mak

ariel · 23rd May 2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I think our Thai members will be able to address this better than I, but I won't let that stop me from trying.

"Dha" is a Burmese term for sword (or knife, depending on the suffix applied). We tend to use it generically to refer to the swords and knives of Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.

As I understand it, the closest corresponding Thai terms are "daab", and "krabi", depending on the type of weapon.

Egerton was probably trying to be specific and accurate as he only refers to Burmese weapons as dha. The spelling of his Siamese weapon names may simply be a function of translation into English letters. "Dass" could be "daab" and "kassi" could be "krabi".

Egerton's description of a "ngao" sounds like a pole-arm of some sort.

Andrew,
What are you doing at 1:30 pm surfing the net? I, at least, am on a legitimate medical leave, but you, a lawyer?

And some say that there is no rest for the wicked...

Rick · 23rd May 2006, 09:42 PM

Seems we're suffering an extreme outbreak of humor on the Forum today .
Must be the alignment of the jokers...er stars ; yeah , that's the ticket !

Andrew · 23rd May 2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Andrew,
What are you doing at 1:30 pm surfing the net? I, at least, am on a legitimate medical leave, but you, a lawyer?

And some say that there is no rest for the wicked...

lol. My two law partners are in trial right now, so I'm stuck here minding the shop.

Ian · 23rd May 2006, 11:56 PM

Speaking of archaic terms, how many people use a cleek, niblick or mashie today? Their decendants are used by millions of people every weekend.

Ian

Bancha Thongkomol · 27th May 2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Not me. I don't chase little balls around in fields.

I agree with Andrew that Egerton's "dass" is probably a daab, and the "kassi" a krabi. Krabi is the term used for certain Siamese weapons, but as I understand it is the specific term for for Western sabres, as well.

I agree with Andrew

PUFF · 29th May 2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

I agree with Andrew

So do I

Please read further explaination abour Dahb and Krabi in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=118

ariel · 29th May 2006, 11:46 AM

So, as I suspected, it is just a matter of pronounciation.
Looking back, it is interesting how consistent Egerton is: in both cases "b" was transliterated by him as "ss".
Perhaps, the native speaker who provided these names to the venerable Lord of Tatton, had no teeth

Mark · 30th May 2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Speaking of archaic terms, how many people use a cleek, niblick or mashie today? Their decendants are used by millions of people every weekend.

Ian

This is what was supposed to be my response to Ian's post (

):

Quote:

Not me. I don't chase little balls around in fields.

I agree with Andrew that Egerton's "dass" is probably a daab, and the "kassi" a krabi. Krabi is the term used for certain Siamese weapons, but as I understand it is the specific term for for Western sabres, as well.

I think I've put everything back the way it was.

23rd May 2006, 06:06 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Siamese Swords: what are they? In the Egerton's book, there is a list of Siamese weapons (p.94). Dha or Darb is not mentioned, although there are several mentions of Dha in the following list ( pp.95-95) and all are attributed to "Burmah". Among the Siamese weapons Egerton mentions: "Dass, the long curved sword 18 to 40 inches long" "Kassi, a long sabre from foreighners" "Ngao, a sort of curved knife or sword, 18 inches long, with handle about 6 feet long" In all the discussions of our esteemed Dhafia, I have never heard of those. Was Egerton mistaken? Name or transliteration incorrect? Are they real? If yes, any examples that can be shown here?

23rd May 2006, 09:42 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,261	Funny Weather Seems we're suffering an extreme outbreak of humor on the Forum today . Must be the alignment of the jokers...er stars ; yeah , that's the ticket !

23rd May 2006, 11:56 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	What's in a name? Speaking of archaic terms, how many people use a cleek, niblick or mashie today? Their decendants are used by millions of people every weekend. Ian Last edited by Mark Bowditch; 30th May 2006 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Jeez, I just realized I over-wrote Ian, rather than quoted. Mod powers are scary. :o

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23rd May 2006, 06:31 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think our Thai members will be able to address this better than I, but I won't let that stop me from trying. "Dha" is a Burmese term for sword (or knife, depending on the suffix applied). We tend to use it generically to refer to the swords and knives of Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. As I understand it, the closest corresponding Thai terms are "daab", and "krabi", depending on the type of weapon. Egerton was probably trying to be specific and accurate as he only refers to Burmese weapons as dha. The spelling of his Siamese weapon names may simply be a function of translation into English letters. "Dass" could be "daab" and "kassi" could be "krabi". Egerton's description of a "ngao" sounds like a pole-arm of some sort.

23rd May 2006, 08:04 PM	#3
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	The "ngao" sounds rather like a mak.

23rd May 2006, 08:07 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Pak-A-Mak

29th May 2006, 11:46 AM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	So, as I suspected, it is just a matter of pronounciation. Looking back, it is interesting how consistent Egerton is: in both cases "b" was transliterated by him as "ss". Perhaps, the native speaker who provided these names to the venerable Lord of Tatton, had no teeth