A Unique and Interesting Javanese Parang

CharlesS · 16th July 2008, 01:14 PM

Here is a lovely old Javanese parang, I believe from no later than the mid to late 19th century. The pommel opening seems to bow to European influence in design. At first glance its fittings almost give it the appearance of a pedang lurus, but it clearly is not. Note a fine and interesting ivory hilt with silver cup mount. The gently curved blade is classic, well executed pamor.....can anyone identify the pamor pattern??...thanks for any help on that issue.

VVV · 16th July 2008, 04:52 PM

Both interesting and unique indeed.
I haven't seen any pedang with that kind of hilt before.
The closest is a royal gift pedang lurus at Tropen with ivory hilt, gold etc...
Your hilt resembles the Madurese Donoriko keris hilt.
On the pamor maybe you could attach a close up?

Michael

CharlesS · 16th July 2008, 05:14 PM

Thanks VVV.

The hilt style does, indeed, resemble the Madurese keris hilt.

The blade is also a unique shape, just slightly curved with a false edge, almost as if the bladesmith could not decide whether to make a 'slasher' or 'stabber', and so tried for both.

I doubt this sword was ever intended for use though. It is relatively thin and light, though not flexible.

The blade close-up is attached. You can also easily see where the false edge begins.

josh stout · 16th July 2008, 06:05 PM

That bend just before the false edge is exactly like a pedang larus, and as you say, the guard also would be correct for a pedang larus. Very strange

How well does the point line up when thrusting? With a typical pedang larus, it is like pointing a finger with the right palm held vertically facing the right. Could it be designed for the tricky backhand thrust? (Right palm vertical facing the left, body turned sideways)
Josh

CharlesS · 16th July 2008, 07:57 PM

Josh,

This blade has a distinct up curve towards the end that is somewhat different from a pedang lurus. Holding it, it strikes you immediately as a slasher, but could be used for thrusting.

David · 16th July 2008, 08:03 PM

Charles...in a word...stunning!

Are you thinking East Jawa due to the Madurese influence on the hilt?

asomotif · 16th July 2008, 08:05 PM

The hilt also makes me think of a mameluke sword. the way they where carried by the europeans with the big hole in it.

VVV · 16th July 2008, 11:25 PM

Could the pamor be Lawe Setukel (or is it a variation of Buntel Mayit)?
I think your pedang is related to this one http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1217 [I couldn't find my own pictures of it]

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 17th July 2008, 12:45 AM

Nice pedang.

"Lurus" simply means straight. A pedang lurus is a straight pedang.

A pedang with a return edge at the point is a thrusting pedang, or pedang suduk (Javanese) , pedang tusuk (Indonesian).

This pedang has a return edge, thus it is a pedang suduk.

There are two broad classifications of Javanese pedang:- pedang suduk, thrusting sword; pedang sabet:- slashing sword.

However, the typical forms of Javanese slashing sword are forward weighted, they are not designed for a draw cut, which would tend to indicate use on horseback, but rather for a heavy chopping action, a more effective usage for somebody on foot.

This sword bears none of the essential features for a Javanese slashing sword, thus it cannot be classified as one.

However, the blade is capable of a draw cut. This is unusual for a Javanese pedang.

This sword carries European influence, it is not a traditional form of Javanese sword.

The picture from Oriental Arms is a good representation of a typical pedang suduk.

The pamor can be classified as "pandan iris". This is from Haryono Haryoguritno, who is the most respected recently published authority. I could give it another half dozen names, but rather than muddy the water, it is perhaps best to stay with the authority currently in vogue.

This pamor is a stack of small slices of contrasting material.Pamor lawe setukal winds back and forth across the blade; pamor buntel mayat winds around the blade and is angled. ( please note:- mayat meaning sloping or slanted, which perfectly describes the pamor, not mayit, meaning "corpse".)

In determination of origin, we normally use objects of known origin to guide us. We cannot do that with this sword. However, my feeling is that this sword probably comes from Madura. The kepet (flange) at the end of the scabbard is more Madura-like than the form seen in Central Jawa, but on the other hand, the motif on the scabbard shows some similarity to the motifs used on pendok from Banyumas in Central Jawa. Considering all characteristics of the sword, I'd be inclined to opt for Madura.

Madura is a part of East Jawa, however, the rulers in Madura were considerably influenced by the Dutch, whereas there was less opportunity for Dutch influence in regal or military affairs in the rest of East Jawa, so in this case, if we say "East Jawa", we can safely nominate Madura.

Note:- I prefer to use "return edge", or "back edge", rather than "false edge"; in a blade with a false edge at the foible, that edge is often left unsharpened, making it a true "false edge", however, the term "back edge", or "return edge" does not carry the same connotation of falseness.

CharlesS · 17th July 2008, 02:07 AM

Thanks for your observations AG....I could not agree more that there is no "perfect term" for this blade style.

The analysis of the hilt and kepet making perfect sense in pointing towards Madura, especially when considering Maduran keris hilt and fittings styles.

I think if is fair to say that there may be a variety of influences at work here, and that is precisely why I find it so appealing.

Thanks again for you input.

VVV · 17th July 2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...( please note:- mayat meaning sloping or slanted, which perfectly describes the pamor, not mayit, meaning "corpse".)...

Sorry Alan about the misspelling of mayat. I used an obviously unreliable Indonesian online resource.

I also like your definition of false edge as I have always been uncomfortable with calling a real edge false.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 17th July 2008, 10:43 PM

Michael, there is a lot of differing opinions on just about anything to do with keris.

Ask a group of six keris people in Jawa for an opinion on something to do with keris, and you'll get ten answers---and that's when they're not feeling a bit undecided.

There are a lot of people who call this pamor buntel mayit.They relate it to the corpse wrapping, and then construct all sorts of wonderful stories around the name. However, it is important to understand the way in which Javanese people use language and ideas. Some linguists have commented that each Javanese person believes that the words he utters are his own property, thus there is no need to conform to usual or accepted forms; this results in the substitution of letters, both vowels and consonants, in order to create different words that might carry a different meaning, perhaps a joke, but without making the content of the conversation unintelligible. Words will be altered to express associated ideas, so that there can be one obvious meaning, and one or more hidden meanings. Sometimes a word will be altered simply to make it fun to say, or because in combination with the other words in the sentence, it just doesn't sound pleasant.Sometimes differing syllables will be added to words, usually as an infix or suffix, not often as a prefix, in order to make the sound more interesting, or the sentence or phrase more balanced, but without losing the meaning of the sentence.

So--- yes, buntel mayat, but because of idea associations with the keris, it is not at all difficult to understand how buntel mayat became twisted into buntel mayit.

The reason I always use mayat, is because this word corruption was something that made my teacher, Pak Parman , extremely angry. He regarded the use of buntel mayit, rather than buntel mayat as something insulting and ill mannered.

This was his feeling about this usage, but it does not necessarily apply to other people---but then, other people perhaps are not quite so immersed in keris culture as was Pak Parman.

Your source for buntel mayit probably just went to a different school.

16th July 2008, 01:14 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	A Unique and Interesting Javanese Parang Here is a lovely old Javanese *parang*, I believe from no later than the mid to late 19th century. The pommel opening seems to bow to European influence in design. At first glance its fittings almost give it the appearance of a pedang lurus, but it clearly is not. Note a fine and interesting ivory hilt with silver cup mount. The gently curved blade is classic, well executed pamor.....can anyone identify the pamor pattern??...thanks for any help on that issue. Attached Images

16th July 2008, 05:14 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Thanks VVV. The hilt style does, indeed, resemble the Madurese keris hilt. The blade is also a unique shape, just slightly curved with a false edge, almost as if the bladesmith could not decide whether to make a 'slasher' or 'stabber', and so tried for both. I doubt this sword was ever intended for use though. It is relatively thin and light, though not flexible. The blade close-up is attached. You can also easily see where the false edge begins. Attached Images

16th July 2008, 11:25 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Could the pamor be Lawe Setukel (or is it a variation of Buntel Mayit)? I think your pedang is related to this one http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1217 [I couldn't find my own pictures of it] Michael Attached Images

16th July 2008, 04:52 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Both interesting and unique indeed. I haven't seen any pedang with that kind of hilt before. The closest is a royal gift pedang lurus at Tropen with ivory hilt, gold etc... Your hilt resembles the Madurese Donoriko keris hilt. On the pamor maybe you could attach a close up? Michael

16th July 2008, 06:05 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That bend just before the false edge is exactly like a pedang larus, and as you say, the guard also would be correct for a pedang larus. Very strange How well does the point line up when thrusting? With a typical pedang larus, it is like pointing a finger with the right palm held vertically facing the right. Could it be designed for the tricky backhand thrust? (Right palm vertical facing the left, body turned sideways) Josh

16th July 2008, 07:57 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Josh, This blade has a distinct up curve towards the end that is somewhat different from a pedang lurus. Holding it, it strikes you immediately as a slasher, but could be used for thrusting.

16th July 2008, 08:03 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	Charles...in a word...stunning! Are you thinking East Jawa due to the Madurese influence on the hilt?

16th July 2008, 08:05 PM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	The hilt also makes me think of a mameluke sword. the way they where carried by the europeans with the big hole in it.

17th July 2008, 12:45 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Nice pedang. "Lurus" simply means straight. A pedang lurus is a straight pedang. A pedang with a return edge at the point is a thrusting pedang, or pedang suduk (Javanese) , pedang tusuk (Indonesian). This pedang has a return edge, thus it is a pedang suduk. There are two broad classifications of Javanese pedang:- pedang suduk, thrusting sword; pedang sabet:- slashing sword. However, the typical forms of Javanese slashing sword are forward weighted, they are not designed for a draw cut, which would tend to indicate use on horseback, but rather for a heavy chopping action, a more effective usage for somebody on foot. This sword bears none of the essential features for a Javanese slashing sword, thus it cannot be classified as one. However, the blade is capable of a draw cut. This is unusual for a Javanese pedang. This sword carries European influence, it is not a traditional form of Javanese sword. The picture from Oriental Arms is a good representation of a typical pedang suduk. The pamor can be classified as "pandan iris". This is from Haryono Haryoguritno, who is the most respected recently published authority. I could give it another half dozen names, but rather than muddy the water, it is perhaps best to stay with the authority currently in vogue. This pamor is a stack of small slices of contrasting material.Pamor lawe setukal winds back and forth across the blade; pamor buntel mayat winds around the blade and is angled. ( please note:- mayat meaning sloping or slanted, which perfectly describes the pamor, not mayit, meaning "corpse".) In determination of origin, we normally use objects of known origin to guide us. We cannot do that with this sword. However, my feeling is that this sword probably comes from Madura. The kepet (flange) at the end of the scabbard is more Madura-like than the form seen in Central Jawa, but on the other hand, the motif on the scabbard shows some similarity to the motifs used on pendok from Banyumas in Central Jawa. Considering all characteristics of the sword, I'd be inclined to opt for Madura. Madura is a part of East Jawa, however, the rulers in Madura were considerably influenced by the Dutch, whereas there was less opportunity for Dutch influence in regal or military affairs in the rest of East Jawa, so in this case, if we say "East Jawa", we can safely nominate Madura. Note:- I prefer to use "return edge", or "back edge", rather than "false edge"; in a blade with a false edge at the foible, that edge is often left unsharpened, making it a true "false edge", however, the term "back edge", or "return edge" does not carry the same connotation of falseness.

17th July 2008, 02:07 AM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Thanks for your observations AG....I could not agree more that there is no "perfect term" for this blade style. The analysis of the hilt and kepet making perfect sense in pointing towards Madura, especially when considering Maduran keris hilt and fittings styles. I think if is fair to say that there may be a variety of influences at work here, and that is precisely why I find it so appealing. Thanks again for you input.

17th July 2008, 10:43 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Michael, there is a lot of differing opinions on just about anything to do with keris. Ask a group of six keris people in Jawa for an opinion on something to do with keris, and you'll get ten answers---and that's when they're not feeling a bit undecided. There are a lot of people who call this pamor buntel mayit.They relate it to the corpse wrapping, and then construct all sorts of wonderful stories around the name. However, it is important to understand the way in which Javanese people use language and ideas. Some linguists have commented that each Javanese person believes that the words he utters are his own property, thus there is no need to conform to usual or accepted forms; this results in the substitution of letters, both vowels and consonants, in order to create different words that might carry a different meaning, perhaps a joke, but without making the content of the conversation unintelligible. Words will be altered to express associated ideas, so that there can be one obvious meaning, and one or more hidden meanings. Sometimes a word will be altered simply to make it fun to say, or because in combination with the other words in the sentence, it just doesn't sound pleasant.Sometimes differing syllables will be added to words, usually as an infix or suffix, not often as a prefix, in order to make the sound more interesting, or the sentence or phrase more balanced, but without losing the meaning of the sentence. So--- yes, buntel mayat, but because of idea associations with the keris, it is not at all difficult to understand how buntel mayat became twisted into buntel mayit. The reason I always use mayat, is because this word corruption was something that made my teacher, Pak Parman , extremely angry. He regarded the use of buntel mayit, rather than buntel mayat as something insulting and ill mannered. This was his feeling about this usage, but it does not necessarily apply to other people---but then, other people perhaps are not quite so immersed in keris culture as was Pak Parman. Your source for buntel mayit probably just went to a different school.