Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st November 2017, 10:40 AM   #1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
Excellent thread on my favorite type of weapon! Nothing to add to what's already been said other than the fact that many of the naval pattern cutlass had surprisingly blunt edges. If one remembers that the chief initiative of naval boarding was for the capture of the ship, one can assume that many of the blows from these weapons was to incapacitate the enemy vs. downright kill him. Rest assured, a cutlass blow could kill, but in the descriptive battle CC mentioned, casualties from edged weapons were indeed low.

I read a book on 19th c. cutlass practice and learned the chief target was the opponent's head, thus the development of the unique leather head gear developed by the Americans. A cutlass slamming into your skull would certainly split the scalp, get blood in your eyes, stun or knock you senseless and take the fight out of you, but not necessarily deliver a mortal wound. Cannon balls, shivers/splinters, grenades and musket shot, on the other hand, was more deadly and caused the most trauma.

When boarding, the boarders were often the last attack plan, with the cannons, grapeshot and musket fire from the tops sweeping the deck first. The 'party' were the finishing-up crew.
Salaams M Eley and it is great to see your reply. I recorded a few details on Cutlass in action.
Attached Images
   
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2017, 02:16 PM   #2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

It is perhaps the right time to look at training on Cutlasses on board and ashore ~ As noted previously The Captain of HMS Shannon was keen to get his men used to cutlass work... He used sticks to very good effect.

Below some interesting scenarios on Cutlass Training.~ Bristol Police Training, Cutlass Drill on HMS Cerebus, Training in a shore station at Dawlish and a white seachart of different defence and attack drills ordered by the Admiralty.
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st November 2017 at 02:40 PM.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2017, 07:52 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Well made note Mark on the dull edge of the cutlass. if that were not the case, the wound suffered by the captain of the Shannon would have split his head like a melon.
It seems funny with the sailors holding these in a fencing stance. These were anything but sharp cutting swords, and by these times, as Mark noted, more like bludgeons. Quite different than boarding in the earlier times of fighting sail and pirates.

The notion of 'fencing' in the manner of every 'swashbuckling' movie or romantic flashing blades in literature is of course, just fun, but mostly nonsense.
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2017, 08:44 PM   #4
Hotspur
Member
 
Hotspur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 491
Default

"Use the point boys, save the edge for kindling."

Considering the wide use of straight bladed cutlasses over the centuries, there is little doubt thrusting was considered effective. A lot of late sail training pictures and manuals seem to regard what one sees in lots of sabre notes.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

Compare George Silver to later traits such as Donald McBane and one still sees undeniable similarities applicable to both straight and curved blades.

There are keggers of discussions re the veracity of cut vs thrust and reviewing those, as well as virtually any treatise on early modern swordsmanship, one can go back to Silver and find a simple truth that "Perfect fight stands upon both blow and thrust, therefore the thrust is not only to be used." However prefaced before that with the statement "That a blow comes continually as near as a thrust, and most commonly nearer, stronger, more swift, and is sooner done."

At any rate, what we see in these photos is quite traditional sabre play but don't forget a long, long tradition of singlestick.

Cheers

GC
Hotspur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2017, 05:53 AM   #5
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,076
Default

Both Jim and Glenn pointed out that the slashing attack with the cutlass wasn't practical. This makes total sense when we remember that ship's decks were extremely tight quarters and overcrowded. Although some longer swords made it to sea, the primary edged weapons were short hangers, cutlasses, dirks, etc. Thrusting weapons were the item of choice, evidenced by the reemergence of the ancient pike, much shortened to fit on a crowded ship's deck. The point is that it makes sense that the cutlass could be used as a sharpened bludgeon, but worked better as a stabbing implement like the pikes and dirks.

As a medical person, I would say that a jab to the face or neck could obviously be lethal, penetrating the airway, severing the trachea, carotids and jugular. To the chest, there is penetration of the lungs, bronchus (all fatal), heart and great vessels (aortic arch), abdominal cavity with its vascular liver and pancreas.

Also consider the cutlass in the use for DEFENSE of the ship vs the aggressor boarding party. Netting was placed over the ship to discourage boarders, with the pikemen stabbing through the netting as the enemy attempted to clamber onto the deck. Again, a cutlass would work far better here as a thrusting defensive weapon, stabbing through the tight ropes at those on the other side. It stands to reason that this is why, as Jim astutely pointed out, the cutlass became more of a blunt tool over the years.
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2017, 09:14 AM   #6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

Salaams M ELEY, I agree entirely...and this is underlined by its use as a Police weapon..In the Navy many of the moves do appear to be as a thrust action...I would imagine also that in a melee it would be more a brawling weapon and in the final assault little room and no time to dawdle in posed sword stance... More the concept of "get in there and bash heads"! The stabbing effect would certainly be most useful in close fighting.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2017, 12:35 AM   #7
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,076
Default

Exactly, Ibrahiim. Thanks again for posting this information, especially the charts on cutlass drill. I think it is a welcome edition to this forum for future collectors and historians!
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.