keris for comments

Mamat Lombok · 14th November 2009, 02:31 PM

Hello guys ,

i want to share my BUGIS SUMBAWA to the forum.
old blade with new sheath,any comments are well come.

regards,
Mamat .

David · 14th November 2009, 04:17 PM

This is a nice keris, but i don't think i would classify this blade as Bugis. What about it makes it Bugis for you?

Gustav · 14th November 2009, 04:56 PM

I suppose this spelling goes back to the post: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=10218&page=3

Congratulations, a really nice blade, Mamat. Regarding the fittings: is the sampir new or just used and recently "married" to this blade? What would you say about the age of selut?

Sajen · 14th November 2009, 05:20 PM

Equal from where this blade, very nice pamor!

Mamat Lombok · 15th November 2009, 08:50 AM

dear all ,
thanks for the comments.

hi david , i said the blade is bugis cause i obtain directly from the original owner,
he is a villager in kampung bugis (west sumbawa).

To Gustav ,sampir and ganjar are new ,also the pendhok.
the original part of it only blade and hilt.
oh ya selut is new made also

A. G. Maisey · 15th November 2009, 09:33 AM

Interesting.

Very.

Moshah · 16th November 2009, 09:11 AM

Was it Lar Gangsir agal, or could it be ganggeng kanyut too?

David · 16th November 2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

i said the blade is bugis cause i obtain directly from the original owner, he is a villager in kampung bugis (west sumbawa).

You say original owner. Then this keris isn't so old after all?

Even so this is clearly not a Bugis style blade.

BluErf · 16th November 2009, 04:00 PM

It's a B-KLO (Bugis Keris Like Object)!

Mamat Lombok · 16th November 2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

You say original owner. Then this keris isn't so old after all?

Even so this is clearly not a Bugis style blade.

Hi Dave..
frankly i am not so sure about how old the keris is..but some people say that it come from midle of 18th century (I AM NOT SURE about it).
thanks.

David · 16th November 2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

Hi Dave..
frankly i am not so sure about how old the keris is..but some people say that it come from midle of 18th century (I AM NOT SURE about it).
thanks.

That was the point of my post. If you got it from the original owner then it certainly isn't from the mid 18th or even 19th century or this guy must have been really, really old.

If it is actually old then the guy you got it from wasn't the original owner and it's origins don't necessarily have to be in West Sumbawa where it was found. As we all know, blades can travel over time. Either way i still maintain that this is not the style of blade that we see from the Bugis people, regardless of how it is dressed. It has far too many Javanese elements to it though i am not so sure it is from Java. I have absolutely no idea why i think it might be Palembang, but i will put that out there.

David · 16th November 2009, 09:44 PM

...or maybe Madura...

BluErf · 17th November 2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That was the point of my post. If you got it from the original owner then it certainly isn't from the mid 18th or even 19th century or this guy must have been really, really old.

If it is actually old then the guy you got it from wasn't the original owner and it's origins don't necessarily have to be in West Sumbawa where it was found. As we all know, blades can travel over time. Either way i still maintain that this is not the style of blade that we see from the Bugis people, regardless of how it is dressed. It has far too many Javanese elements to it though i am not so sure it is from Java. I have absolutely no idea why i think it might be Palembang, but i will put that out there.

I won't say I'm an expert on Palembang kerises, but being one of my favourite area of keris collecting, this keris blade here does not have the 'look and feel' of a Palembang keris.

The luk and greneng, and the appearance of the metal, pamor do not look like Palembang.

David · 17th November 2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I won't say I'm an expert on Palembang kerises, but being one of my favourite area of keris collecting, this keris blade here does not have the 'look and feel' of a Palembang keris.

The luk and greneng, and the appearance of the metal, pamor do not look like Palembang.

You know i do agree with you Kai Wee which is why i posted my follow-up after further consideration, though it probably isn't Madura either.

A. G. Maisey · 17th November 2009, 08:32 PM

It looks like this remarkable keris has caught our attention.

Has anybody ever seen pamor like this, made with material of this kind, in a Peninsula Keris? Sumatra Keris? Bugis Keris from anywhere?

Perhaps we may have seen similar pamor work in a Lombok Keris. Maybe even in a Bali Keris.

We have almost certainly seen similar pamor work in a Jawa Keris.

And in a current era Madura keris.

Look at the form of the gandik and the way that the ron dha have been cut. Look at the proportionate length of the last luk.

Look at the exceptionally crude workmanship in the sogokan.

Look at the pattern of erosion on the surface of the blade.

Now have a look at the pendongkok. This pendongkok was made in East Jawa.

Look at the pendok. Who has seen a buntut of exactly this form on a keris that was definitely known to come from the Peninsula, Sumatra, or the Eastern Islands? I have not, but I have seen this sort of work on very inferior pendok made in East Jawa.

I have not the slightest doubt that Mamat acquired this keris from a villager of Bugis descent, living in West Sumbawa.

My question would be:- from where did our Bugis villager acquire this keris?

In my book, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck -----

Moshah · 18th November 2009, 07:51 AM

The blade is drenched with oil.

Perhaps if Mr mamat lombok could wipe it dry and post the blade's texture close up, we can get a closer, clearer look at it.

David · 18th November 2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

The blade is drenched with oil.
Perhaps if Mr mamat lombok could wipe it dry and post the blade's texture close up, we can get a closer, clearer look at it.

I agree that there is way too much oil on this blade, but i am not so sure that the assessments would change much if you wiped it dry and shot again.

14th November 2009, 02:31 PM	#1
Mamat Lombok Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: lombok-indonesia Posts: 66	keris for comments Hello guys , i want to share my BUGIS SUMBAWA to the forum. old blade with new sheath,any comments are well come. regards, Mamat . Attached Images

14th November 2009, 04:56 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	I suppose this spelling goes back to the post: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=10218&page=3 Congratulations, a really nice blade, Mamat. Regarding the fittings: is the sampir new or just used and recently "married" to this blade? What would you say about the age of selut? Last edited by Gustav; 14th November 2009 at 11:40 PM.

14th November 2009, 04:17 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	This is a nice keris, but i don't think i would classify this blade as Bugis. What about it makes it Bugis for you?

14th November 2009, 05:20 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,494	Equal from where this blade, very nice pamor!

15th November 2009, 08:50 AM	#5
Mamat Lombok Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: lombok-indonesia Posts: 66	dear all , thanks for the comments. hi david , i said the blade is bugis cause i obtain directly from the original owner, he is a villager in kampung bugis (west sumbawa). To Gustav ,sampir and ganjar are new ,also the pendhok. the original part of it only blade and hilt. oh ya selut is new made also

15th November 2009, 09:33 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	Interesting. Very.

16th November 2009, 09:11 AM	#7
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Was it Lar Gangsir agal, or could it be ganggeng kanyut too?

16th November 2009, 04:00 PM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	It's a B-KLO (Bugis Keris Like Object)!

16th November 2009, 09:44 PM	#12
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	...or maybe Madura...

17th November 2009, 08:32 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	It looks like this remarkable keris has caught our attention. Has anybody ever seen pamor like this, made with material of this kind, in a Peninsula Keris? Sumatra Keris? Bugis Keris from anywhere? Perhaps we may have seen similar pamor work in a Lombok Keris. Maybe even in a Bali Keris. We have almost certainly seen similar pamor work in a Jawa Keris. And in a current era Madura keris. Look at the form of the gandik and the way that the ron dha have been cut. Look at the proportionate length of the last luk. Look at the exceptionally crude workmanship in the sogokan. Look at the pattern of erosion on the surface of the blade. Now have a look at the pendongkok. This pendongkok was made in East Jawa. Look at the pendok. Who has seen a buntut of exactly this form on a keris that was definitely known to come from the Peninsula, Sumatra, or the Eastern Islands? I have not, but I have seen this sort of work on very inferior pendok made in East Jawa. I have not the slightest doubt that Mamat acquired this keris from a villager of Bugis descent, living in West Sumbawa. My question would be:- from where did our Bugis villager acquire this keris? In my book, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck -----

18th November 2009, 07:51 AM	#16
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	The blade is drenched with oil. Perhaps if Mr mamat lombok could wipe it dry and post the blade's texture close up, we can get a closer, clearer look at it.