Help with shamshir identification

splinter · 23rd June 2013, 11:08 PM

Hi All,

I am a newcomer to the site and am looking for some help in understanding the origin of 3 swords that I have purchased over the years in the middle east while on my travels. Please excuse any incorrect terminology as I have been buying the swords for their aesthetic appeal to me, and am slowly learning of their manufacture and composition.

When looking at the photos of the 3 swords, top > bottom, we have:

1) Purchased in Dubai. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip. Silver plated scabbard with Arabic inscriptions. The ricasso on this type of blade makes me think that this sword is more a tulwar rather than a shamshir.

2) Purchased in Jordan. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip, Silver plated scabbard, Horse head for pommel.

3) Purchased in Oman. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip, Silver plated scabbard.

The swords are similar in overall style. The one purchased in Oman being smaller in length however. I have seem many swords in tourist shops etc. but these have been purchased more directly in antique shops often surrounded by other items such as antique furniture, paintings etc.

Any information on their potential age, origin, rarity, worth etc. would be of great help to me. I can provide more clearer pictures if necessary.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to browse the forums!

soni bikaner · 24th June 2013, 04:38 AM

sorry splinter these all swords are newly made "tourist pieces" from rajasthan India.

regards

soni bikaner

weapons 27 · 24th June 2013, 05:39 AM

hi splinter
in my opinion the three are currently manufactured...nothing of old!

splinter · 24th June 2013, 08:12 AM

Thank you for the replies. Are they Damascus steel however?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th June 2013, 10:03 AM

Salaams splinter ~ Tourist items...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

BANTARU · 24th June 2013, 11:35 AM

Salaam Splinter,

These are 100% Tourist items. please don't tell me you paid a lot for it.

I just passed one on my way home selling almost the same sword (the 1st one). It was overpriced too.

splinter · 24th June 2013, 12:50 PM

Thanks all. I paid what I deemed a fair price for them after a serious amonut of time haggling and shopping around when in these countries. I intended them to be wall hangers as I liked the aesthetics of them, but have been interested to learn if they had and history of note behind them. I've found it difficult to locate authentic shamahirs, but sites like this will help me to find some now.

Battara · 24th June 2013, 01:07 PM

100% sure they are not damascus steel. Sorry.

Rick · 24th June 2013, 04:18 PM

However, they are pattern welded .

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th June 2013, 04:52 PM

Salaams Splinter ~ Please see my thread on Shamshir weapons at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...omani+shamshir I see you are London based and can only suggest a quick trip to any of the big museums and of course The Wallace Collection which could be a great place to kick off everything you need to know about Shamshirs . There are many threads on forum about The Wallace...please see library.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

splinter · 25th June 2013, 10:47 PM

WSalaam all, thank you all for the information and links. Buying an authentic shamahir is looking to be a fine art in itself. Hopefully I'll come across some in my travels. The shape of the authentic shamahirs seem to be longer and "thinner" from what I see in the pictures. The weight and balance is also important. Is there a way to tell if one has true wootz steel? Patterning and seeing the folds is one way I presume, although it probably takes a bit of experience as well.

23rd June 2013, 11:08 PM	#1
splinter Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK, London Posts: 4	Help with shamshir identification Hi All, I am a newcomer to the site and am looking for some help in understanding the origin of 3 swords that I have purchased over the years in the middle east while on my travels. Please excuse any incorrect terminology as I have been buying the swords for their aesthetic appeal to me, and am slowly learning of their manufacture and composition. When looking at the photos of the 3 swords, top > bottom, we have: 1) Purchased in Dubai. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip. Silver plated scabbard with Arabic inscriptions. The ricasso on this type of blade makes me think that this sword is more a tulwar rather than a shamshir. 2) Purchased in Jordan. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip, Silver plated scabbard, Horse head for pommel. 3) Purchased in Oman. Damascus Steel blade/camel bone grip, Silver plated scabbard. The swords are similar in overall style. The one purchased in Oman being smaller in length however. I have seem many swords in tourist shops etc. but these have been purchased more directly in antique shops often surrounded by other items such as antique furniture, paintings etc. Any information on their potential age, origin, rarity, worth etc. would be of great help to me. I can provide more clearer pictures if necessary. Thanks in advance, looking forward to browse the forums! Attached Images

24th June 2013, 04:38 AM	#2
soni bikaner Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: bikaner, rajasthan, india Posts: 6	sorry splinter these all swords are newly made "tourist pieces" from rajasthan India. regards soni bikaner

24th June 2013, 05:39 AM	#3
weapons 27 Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 462	hi splinter in my opinion the three are currently manufactured...nothing of old!

24th June 2013, 08:12 AM	#4
splinter Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK, London Posts: 4	Thank you for the replies. Are they Damascus steel however?

24th June 2013, 10:03 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams splinter ~ Tourist items... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

24th June 2013, 11:35 AM	#6
BANTARU Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 39	Salaam Splinter, These are 100% Tourist items. please don't tell me you paid a lot for it. I just passed one on my way home selling almost the same sword (the 1st one). It was overpriced too.

24th June 2013, 12:50 PM	#7
splinter Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK, London Posts: 4	Thanks all. I paid what I deemed a fair price for them after a serious amonut of time haggling and shopping around when in these countries. I intended them to be wall hangers as I liked the aesthetics of them, but have been interested to learn if they had and history of note behind them. I've found it difficult to locate authentic shamahirs, but sites like this will help me to find some now.

24th June 2013, 01:07 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	100% sure they are not damascus steel. Sorry.

24th June 2013, 04:18 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	However, they are pattern welded .

25th June 2013, 04:52 PM	#10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Splinter ~ Please see my thread on Shamshir weapons at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...omani+shamshir I see you are London based and can only suggest a quick trip to any of the big museums and of course The Wallace Collection which could be a great place to kick off everything you need to know about Shamshirs . There are many threads on forum about The Wallace...please see library. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

25th June 2013, 10:47 PM	#11
splinter Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK, London Posts: 4	WSalaam all, thank you all for the information and links. Buying an authentic shamahir is looking to be a fine art in itself. Hopefully I'll come across some in my travels. The shape of the authentic shamahirs seem to be longer and "thinner" from what I see in the pictures. The weight and balance is also important. Is there a way to tell if one has true wootz steel? Patterning and seeing the folds is one way I presume, although it probably takes a bit of experience as well.