Help/info on old polearms

machinist · 18th December 2011, 07:30 PM

I have a couple polearms that I have had since the eighties and was wondering if anyone here had any ideas about age, origin, or usage. I was told the previous owner believed they were from Brittany and from the 1700's or previous. The one with two mounting arms I have seen several examples in photos but never any information. The one with a mounting socket someone told me was similar to a sugar cane cutter that he had seen but that fellow seemed a bit off. I am also considering that they may have been used for the butchering of whales as Bretons were supposedly active in that although I would of course prefer to think of them as stout peasant weapons.
Sorry about the pics, I am using the still function on an old camcorder. Pencil used for scale

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fernando · 18th December 2011, 08:54 PM

Hi Machinist,
You should use the forum upload features. I have replaced your photobucket images with direct attachments.
I will also move your thread to the European Arms section, where your polearms will in principle be better placed for discussion.

.

machinist · 19th December 2011, 11:02 PM

Sorry about that, thanks for the assist Fernando

fernando · 20th December 2011, 01:59 PM

These would be very early examples of the halberd family; in fact, significantly earlier than what you were told.
... So early that you must consider whether they are authentic or recent replicas, like for re-enacting or decoration.
Better pictures would help experienced members to judge on that.

Matchlock · 20th December 2011, 04:46 PM

Hi 'Nando,

I'm on the same page with you considering that the basic shapes of those polearms are of Late-Gothic style. On second sight though they are late 19th-c. made at best.

m

machinist · 20th December 2011, 11:37 PM

Thanks for the ideas Fernando and Matchlock, I had not really considered that they might be wallhangers but that is always a possibility. The one with the single socket really looks excavated from its deep pitting but a good faker could do that I suppose. The first order of business for me is to get a proper camera and upload better pics. Thanks again.

machinist · 16th January 2013, 05:50 AM

Well I did not keep my promise to get a better camera and take better pictures, Consumer electronics are a low priority for me and my thin wallet, except for the computer.
However I have found the answer to my questions about these items.

I contacted boardmember Broadaxe and learned from him that objects like this are made as tools called Haches de Chai or Coupe Marc or Tranche-marc and they were used in the cider and grape presses of France to cut the solid material after pressing. Also that there is a book, Les haches, by Daniel Boucard that anyone who wants to buy old axes or polearms should read, so as to spot the not so obvious agricultural tool.

While it makes sense that such things must have been carried into battle it perhaps was primarily a make shift weapon.
Fortunately for me I enjoy agricultural implements also so it is not a complete failure on my part although after seeing the prices on French ebay I realize I overpaid.
Googling the above search terms led me to a few interesting discussions on French tool collector sites about the use and provenance of such tools.
There is also a nice one in Stones Glossary under "voulge".

18th December 2011, 07:30 PM	#1
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Help/info on old polearms I have a couple polearms that I have had since the eighties and was wondering if anyone here had any ideas about age, origin, or usage. I was told the previous owner believed they were from Brittany and from the 1700's or previous. The one with two mounting arms I have seen several examples in photos but never any information. The one with a mounting socket someone told me was similar to a sugar cane cutter that he had seen but that fellow seemed a bit off. I am also considering that they may have been used for the butchering of whales as Bretons were supposedly active in that although I would of course prefer to think of them as stout peasant weapons. Sorry about the pics, I am using the still function on an old camcorder. Pencil used for scale . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 18th December 2011 at 08:45 PM.

18th December 2011, 08:54 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Machinist, You should use the forum upload features. I have replaced your photobucket images with direct attachments. I will also move your thread to the European Arms section, where your polearms will in principle be better placed for discussion. .

19th December 2011, 11:02 PM	#3
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Sorry about that, thanks for the assist Fernando

20th December 2011, 01:59 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	These would be very early examples of the halberd family; in fact, significantly earlier than what you were told. ... So early that you must consider whether they are authentic or recent replicas, like for re-enacting or decoration. Better pictures would help experienced members to judge on that.

20th December 2011, 04:46 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, I'm on the same page with you considering that the basic shapes of those polearms are of Late-Gothic style. On second sight though they are late 19th-c. made at best. m

20th December 2011, 11:37 PM	#6
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Thanks for the ideas Fernando and Matchlock, I had not really considered that they might be wallhangers but that is always a possibility. The one with the single socket really looks excavated from its deep pitting but a good faker could do that I suppose. The first order of business for me is to get a proper camera and upload better pics. Thanks again.

16th January 2013, 05:50 AM	#7
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Well I did not keep my promise to get a better camera and take better pictures, Consumer electronics are a low priority for me and my thin wallet, except for the computer. However I have found the answer to my questions about these items. I contacted boardmember Broadaxe and learned from him that objects like this are made as tools called Haches de Chai or Coupe Marc or Tranche-marc and they were used in the cider and grape presses of France to cut the solid material after pressing. Also that there is a book, Les haches, by Daniel Boucard that anyone who wants to buy old axes or polearms should read, so as to spot the not so obvious agricultural tool. While it makes sense that such things must have been carried into battle it perhaps was primarily a make shift weapon. Fortunately for me I enjoy agricultural implements also so it is not a complete failure on my part although after seeing the prices on French ebay I realize I overpaid. Googling the above search terms led me to a few interesting discussions on French tool collector sites about the use and provenance of such tools. There is also a nice one in Stones Glossary under "voulge".