Krazy Kris Krosses

[Spunjer]

hello all,

here's a moro kris i find rather unusual. engraved on both sides are symbols i haven't seen on any moro swords. the closest i've ever seen these designs are on european swords, reason i'm posting this here. actually the more i look at it, the more i think the blade itself was of european origin.
regarding the blade:
it has a total of five flukes (two upper and three lower) on each side of the blade. also, a shallow fuller runs for about two-thirds of its total length.
as far as the symbols, here is how it's arranged:
both sides has seven crosses that reminds me of templar design. in-between these "templar" crosses are smaller crosses that is similar to a shuriken in design. after the fourth templar cross (counting from the handle, on both sides), there are some unusual figures that reminds me of masonic origin. one of these figures looks like an architect's compass, and also, there's an arrowhead looking thing with a cross inside. in the world of moro weapons, there are similar type of figures (arrowhead), but in moro weapons tradition, these figures point out, as in the sharp point of the arrowhead points toward the tip of the blade.; NEVER towards the handle. on this one, well, it seeks like it bucked the system.
anyone familiar with this marks? if this was indeed a european blade at one point, what country would it originally came from, and from what type of sword? also, what would be the age of the sword?

[Spunjer]

also, what would be the age of the sword?

i meant to ask, the age of the blade...

[ThePepperSkull]

Beautiful Kris! Did you purchase this one?

I hope to learn more about the markings as well. Very interesting

[David]

a beautiful enigma...

[Rick]

Ron,
I think it's mid-19th .

How do we reconcile the iconography on the blade with the prevalent religious culture in the area/time ?

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Beautiful Kris! Did you purchase this one?

I hope to learn more about the markings as well. Very interesting

yep. i just haven't got the time to take my own pics so i just posted the original pictures..

rick, the Maranao country was the most topographically isolated area (surrounded by high plateau which in turn is surrounded by rugged mountain ranges) of the three main Moro country, therefore they were the last to be converted to Islam, and the least subjected to external influences. The spanish had explored the lake country as far back as the early part of 1600's, but had found the terrain and the Maranaos too intimidating to attempt a conquest. it wasn't until 1890 when a determined attempt was made to reach lake lanao, and it would take another year for the spaniards to advance to the shores of lake lanao, heartland of maranao country, in the expense of intense fighting and heavy spanish losses (ironically, the spanish foot soldiers were almost all filipinos, 8,000 strong ). although the spaniards established a few garrisons, it wasn't your typical "it's my weekend off and it's a beautiful day, so i'm going to the marketplace to buy a souvenir for my lovely Maria" kinda place. as a matter of fact, the only wagon road leading to Marawi (the principal town) had to have the trees and foliage cleared 100 feet on both sides to prevent ambushes.

sorry, i'm getting off track and this thread is turning out to be an ethnographic topic, lol. as far as the blade, i still think it was originally european in origin, as a matter of fact, this blade overall profile is somewhat reminiscent of another Maranao kris i have, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=silver+surfer. i'm hoping the european blade experts can help me with the icons on the blade. does it look like any of the maker's marks found on european swords? i'm with you rick, that the kris itself is from the 1800's, but i have a feeling the blade is much, much older itself...

[kai]

Hello Ron,

Congrats, I'm glad you snapped up this sweet kris!

Maranao, 2nd half of 19th c. seems right to me. The other kris you referred to still looks like a (mid 19th c. or a bit earlier?) Sulu blade to me. I'm afraid that I don't grasp very close similarities or is it mainly a feel/balance thing? Could you post a pic of both pieces side by side, please?

Frome the pics, I don't get the impression that this is a reworked European blade: The pamor at (or in front of) the sampir area looks undisturbed, especially visible on the left hand side; also the form and fullering of the blade does look like nice Moro work to me. Since some of the talismanic marks are situated inside the shallow central fuller while those at the base are engraved into the convex blade surface, I think that the chances that this is an European blade with original European marks are slim to none.

I believe this blade would benefit from careful repolishing and an even etch - this would certainly allow to verify its construction and origin.

Regards,
Kai

[Spunjer]

sorry, been working some crazy hours this past week...

Frome the pics, I don't get the impression that this is a reworked European blade: The pamor at (or in front of) the sampir area looks undisturbed, especially visible on the left hand side; also the form and fullering of the blade does look like nice Moro work to me. Since some of the talismanic marks are situated inside the shallow central fuller while those at the base are engraved into the convex blade surface, I think that the chances that this is an European blade with original European marks are slim to none.

great point, kai! by not getting a peep from our european experts, i take it this pattern is unfamiliar to them.. i've requested to have this thread transferred to the ethno forum.

The other kris you referred to still looks like a (mid 19th c. or a bit earlier?) Sulu blade to me. I'm afraid that I don't grasp very close similarities or is it mainly a feel/balance thing? Could you post a pic of both pieces side by side, please?

i will take some pics per requested either tonite or tomorrow, and will give my explanation, but why do you think the blade is sulu?