A cuirasse breastplate ... for review

fernando · 17th May 2019, 04:57 PM

This breastplate was discussed here quite a few years ago, so i won't bother you with exhaustive details.
My question now, one that intrigues me since i have acquired it and compared to others out there, it is more on the side of its dimensions. Being undoubtedly a genuine piece, i wonder how such a small (in height) device can fit the chest of an adult, whatever armor version it falls into. Could it be for an infant ? i doubt, as its weight (4 1/2 Kilos) and all consistence has more to do with a grown up.
I have tried to take some (non technical) measurements, hoping that some of you guys are familiar with these things and tell me whether this is a normally sized unit to fit whatever armor type of adult soldier.
All measures were taken straight, except for the chest and waist, that were taken following the curvature
Thank you in advance.

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CSinTX · 18th May 2019, 04:19 AM

It is typical for them to seem "too small". Remember people were smaller back then. There would also be a gorget that would cover some of the upper chest.

I have a reinforcement breast plate that measures 39cm top to bottom.

fernando · 18th May 2019, 10:22 AM

Thanks much for your input.
Yes, i guess your'e right; even though 3 cm. in height make it a (proportionally) significant difference.
Possibly my guy was a shorty, even for the period

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Jim McDougall · 19th May 2019, 12:09 AM

Most interesting! I actually have heard of arms and armor for boys, but had no idea of armor for an infant. But then who knows?
The measurements on this cuirass seem remarkably small, even for the smaller size of men in medieval times. Even the notion of dwarves, which certainly existed leads to the idea of appropriately sized armor, but the anomaly of such a piece is notable.

What I wonder is if armorers of the times made display examples to show prospective clients, and to exhibit their skills. It does seem that such items were made of arms and armor both as novelties and to impress.

As mentioned, diminutive size of men in those times was not uncommon, and also, the upper part of the chest was often covered by the 'bevor' which comprised a cover for the lower face and upper chest. The helmet was worn over this component, at least this is what I have understood from what I could find.

Still it is hard to imagine a guy with an 18" chest.

Victrix · 19th May 2019, 11:01 AM

The breastplate seems too small for a man. It should be around 50cm in height. Are there any items for fastening or attachment for wearing the breastplate?Typically there would be slits in the steel for straps, or hinges on the side for the backplate in the case of cuirass, etc.

In military families children would wear arms (and armour) to prepare them for adulthood. Another possibility (although questionable) would be breastplate for a dwarf?

Final possibility is that this is a decorative item perhaps part of a miniature suit of armour. The many dents seem to indicate that the breastplate has been worn in practice however.

Jim McDougall · 19th May 2019, 04:14 PM

It seems a remote possibility that an armor for a dwarf could be possible, but it would seem such a novelty that it would seem duly noted and kept as such.

Could it be that as a model or exemplar of an armorers craft, the quality of the steel might be tested or shown to receive blows in the same manner as full size armor?

By striking the display with a hammer (or other tool or blunt object) the quality of the steel used by the armorer would illustrate its strength.

17th May 2019, 04:57 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	A cuirasse breastplate ... for review This breastplate was discussed here quite a few years ago, so i won't bother you with exhaustive details. My question now, one that intrigues me since i have acquired it and compared to others out there, it is more on the side of its dimensions. Being undoubtedly a genuine piece, i wonder how such a small (in height) device can fit the chest of an adult, whatever armor version it falls into. Could it be for an infant ? i doubt, as its weight (4 1/2 Kilos) and all consistence has more to do with a grown up. I have tried to take some (non technical) measurements, hoping that some of you guys are familiar with these things and tell me whether this is a normally sized unit to fit whatever armor type of adult soldier. All measures were taken straight, except for the chest and waist, that were taken following the curvature Thank you in advance. . Attached Images

18th May 2019, 04:19 AM	#2
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 232	It is typical for them to seem "too small". Remember people were smaller back then. There would also be a gorget that would cover some of the upper chest. I have a reinforcement breast plate that measures 39cm top to bottom.

18th May 2019, 10:22 AM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Thanks much for your input. Yes, i guess your'e right; even though 3 cm. in height make it a (proportionally) significant difference. Possibly my guy was a shorty, even for the period .

19th May 2019, 12:09 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,739	Most interesting! I actually have heard of arms and armor for boys, but had no idea of armor for an infant. But then who knows? The measurements on this cuirass seem remarkably small, even for the smaller size of men in medieval times. Even the notion of dwarves, which certainly existed leads to the idea of appropriately sized armor, but the anomaly of such a piece is notable. What I wonder is if armorers of the times made display examples to show prospective clients, and to exhibit their skills. It does seem that such items were made of arms and armor both as novelties and to impress. As mentioned, diminutive size of men in those times was not uncommon, and also, the upper part of the chest was often covered by the 'bevor' which comprised a cover for the lower face and upper chest. The helmet was worn over this component, at least this is what I have understood from what I could find. Still it is hard to imagine a guy with an 18" chest.

19th May 2019, 11:01 AM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 679	The breastplate seems too small for a man. It should be around 50cm in height. Are there any items for fastening or attachment for wearing the breastplate?Typically there would be slits in the steel for straps, or hinges on the side for the backplate in the case of cuirass, etc. In military families children would wear arms (and armour) to prepare them for adulthood. Another possibility (although questionable) would be breastplate for a dwarf? Final possibility is that this is a decorative item perhaps part of a miniature suit of armour. The many dents seem to indicate that the breastplate has been worn in practice however.

19th May 2019, 04:14 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,739	It seems a remote possibility that an armor for a dwarf could be possible, but it would seem such a novelty that it would seem duly noted and kept as such. Could it be that as a model or exemplar of an armorers craft, the quality of the steel might be tested or shown to receive blows in the same manner as full size armor? By striking the display with a hammer (or other tool or blunt object) the quality of the steel used by the armorer would illustrate its strength.