Dahomey Hwi

Miguel · 29th July 2015, 08:09 PM

Hi Everyone,
I Would very much appreciate if any of the members could translate the letter and numbers on the quillon of this French infantry sabre from which this Dahomey Hwi has been made. I posted it on Ethnographic Arms discussion Forum some days ago but no one seems to know which regiment the sabre belongs to.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Miguel

Kmaddock · 29th July 2015, 10:44 PM

Hi
I think the markings are german regimental markings not french
I will try and translate when I get books out
Regards
Ken

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2015, 03:19 AM

Good call Ken!
Apparantly French briquettes did not typically have regimental stamps, only rack numbers at least noted for Napoleonic period. Not sure about later, but then these weren't really in use that much after the M1832 form came in.

I checking Hughes & Fox ("Compendium of British & German Regimental Markings ", 1975, p.28) there is one grouping of interest,
L. 76.L. II. 4. 50.
Note the L. and the Roman numerals, periods after each number, letter

This particular designation is for
2nd Landsturm battalion of Landwehr-Regt. Nr. 76 4th Coy. Weapon 50

I think Ken's suggestion of German probability is spot on, and though I cannot specify unit, the number, letter combinations seem to correspond in effect. West Africa did of course have considerable German colonial activity as well.

It seems these briquette hilts often ended up in strange hybrid cases, and I have seen them in Spanish colonial composites also, notable that the knuckleguard was often removed on that as well.

Ken Maddock · 30th July 2015, 10:02 AM

Hi
During the Franco Prussian a lot of French equipment was taken by the German forces, it is very common to see French Bayonets re marked with German regimental codes in this way and re issued to rear line troops
So it is highly likely the same thing happened with this side arm.
I should have regimental code in a few days
Regards
Ken

Miguel · 30th July 2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Maddock

Hi
During the Franco Prussian a lot of French equipment was taken by the German forces, it is very common to see French Bayonets re marked with German regimental codes in this way and re issued to rear line troops
So it is highly likely the same thing happened with this side arm.
I should have regimental code in a few days
Regards
Ken

Hi Ken Many thanks for your comments, brilliant, looking forward to knowing the regiment code.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 30th July 2015, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good call Ken!
Apparantly French briquettes did not typically have regimental stamps, only rack numbers at least noted for Napoleonic period. Not sure about later, but then these weren't really in use that much after the M1832 form came in.

I checking Hughes & Fox ("Compendium of British & German Regimental Markings ", 1975, p.28) there is one grouping of interest,
L. 76.L. II. 4. 50.
Note the L. and the Roman numerals, periods after each number, letter

This particular designation is for
2nd Landsturm battalion of Landwehr-Regt. Nr. 76 4th Coy. Weapon 50

I think Ken's suggestion of German probability is spot on, and though I cannot specify unit, the number, letter combinations seem to correspond in effect. West Africa did of course have considerable German colonial activity as well.

It seems these briquette hilts often ended up in strange hybrid cases, and I have seen them in Spanish colonial composites also, notable that the knuckleguard was often removed on that as well.

Hi Jim,
Many thanks for your comments I don't think I will ever get used to the depth of knowledge that is available from the staff and members, I thought that I new something about these things but your knowledge and that of other staff and members is awesome, Ken is kindly going to find out the regiment it really is brilliant.
Regards
Miguel

Jim McDougall · 1st August 2015, 01:48 AM

Miguel,
Thank you so much for the kind words, I am indeed proud to be included among the rich knowledge of many members here. I learn a lot mostly from the experience and examples shared here, and must note that most of what I place here is from compiling information from references and various sources.
Ken was spot on in his recognition of those markings as German, which was what led me to my confirming that suspicion in degree. Essentially, this is the teamwork that I believe is so key here in our study of these arms.

All best regards,
Jim

Miguel · 12th August 2015, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Ken Many thanks for your comments, brilliant, looking forward to knowing the regiment code.
Regards
Miguel

Hi Ken,
Don't mean to be pushy but have you had any luck with finding the regiment ?
Regards
Miguel

29th July 2015, 08:09 PM	#1
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	Dahomey Hwi Hi Everyone, I Would very much appreciate if any of the members could translate the letter and numbers on the quillon of this French infantry sabre from which this Dahomey Hwi has been made. I posted it on Ethnographic Arms discussion Forum some days ago but no one seems to know which regiment the sabre belongs to. Thanking you in anticipation. Miguel Attached Images

29th July 2015, 10:44 PM	#2
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Hi I think the markings are german regimental markings not french I will try and translate when I get books out Regards Ken

30th July 2015, 03:19 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Good call Ken! Apparantly French briquettes did not typically have regimental stamps, only rack numbers at least noted for Napoleonic period. Not sure about later, but then these weren't really in use that much after the M1832 form came in. I checking Hughes & Fox ("Compendium of British & German Regimental Markings ", 1975, p.28) there is one grouping of interest, L. 76.L. II. 4. 50. Note the L. and the Roman numerals, periods after each number, letter This particular designation is for 2nd Landsturm battalion of Landwehr-Regt. Nr. 76 4th Coy. Weapon 50 I think Ken's suggestion of German probability is spot on, and though I cannot specify unit, the number, letter combinations seem to correspond in effect. West Africa did of course have considerable German colonial activity as well. It seems these briquette hilts often ended up in strange hybrid cases, and I have seen them in Spanish colonial composites also, notable that the knuckleguard was often removed on that as well.

30th July 2015, 10:02 AM	#4
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi During the Franco Prussian a lot of French equipment was taken by the German forces, it is very common to see French Bayonets re marked with German regimental codes in this way and re issued to rear line troops So it is highly likely the same thing happened with this side arm. I should have regimental code in a few days Regards Ken

1st August 2015, 01:48 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Miguel, Thank you so much for the kind words, I am indeed proud to be included among the rich knowledge of many members here. I learn a lot mostly from the experience and examples shared here, and must note that most of what I place here is from compiling information from references and various sources. Ken was spot on in his recognition of those markings as German, which was what led me to my confirming that suspicion in degree. Essentially, this is the teamwork that I believe is so key here in our study of these arms. All best regards, Jim