Espada ancha

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2008, 05:50 AM

Among the very few articles written on the 'espada ancha', the distinct frontier sword of Spanish colonial Mexico, the one written by Lee Jones remains one of the most succinct and is among the other excellent articles that stand on our site. It is most surprising that these classic examples of true ethnographic weapons of the Americas have seldom ever been mentioned here on the forum.

I would like to open a discussion here, in hopes that there may be collectors out there who might have acquired examples of these, and might share them for discussion.

There seem to be early examples of these swords that were fashioned after 17th century hunting hangers, and often were mounted with long cavalry blades, later becoming more machete like with heavy forged blades.

My interest in these interesting weapons began many years ago, as a very young collector in Southern California, I happened upon what I know now was an outstanding example of one of these. I recall it was extremely heavy, and there were engraved brass plates on the wooden grip. Unknowingly, I traded it away, and years later when I began studying Spanish colonial weapons, I always regretted the loss of that mysterious sword I know now was the espada ancha.

I hope those of you fortunate enough to have any of these might share them here, and that that everyone here might find these rugged Spanish colonial swords as fascinating as I have.

All very best regards,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 8th April 2008, 02:40 PM

...and there I was, surrounded by piles of notes

In the pirate sword thread posted by M Eley, there is a great example of espada ancha shown from his collection, which has been recently identified as Brazilian. This has a large shellguard which is a striated steel handguard. I have seen these with English blades from the late 18th century, which suggests this form was likely early 19th century.

Many of the espada anchas from New Spain also carry a clamshell, though rather than an encompassing handguard, it is in the form of a langet. I have often wondered if these clamshells had any particular symbolism, or reason for being chosen as motif. Possibly the large shellguards of the 17th century hunting hangers often seen on English examples might have influenced the frontier smiths who skillfully created these hilts?

It seems little known that the espada ancha had a degree of influence in other far regions of the Spanish dominians, in the Phillipines. It would be interesting to see examples of these weapons, which are typically of course identified with the terms applied to them locally.

Best regards,
Jim

Robert · 10th April 2008, 04:33 PM

Hi Jim,
Here are a couple daggers and a couple of swords that I think might fall into what you are talking about. These have all been previously discussed on the forum but if anyone is interested I will post links to them.

Robert

Jim McDougall · 10th April 2008, 05:47 PM

Hi Robert,
Thank you so much for responding!

These very nice examples you have posted indeed represent the types of weapons I had mentioned in the Phillipines, and though not directly 'espada anchas', they do illustrate the Spanish influence on these weapons.
The example with the interesting finger ring is typically identified as a 'Central American dirk' and as part of the Spanish Colonial influence sphere ( Levines, revised 4th Ed.1997, p.461, A.8).

The Spanish Colonial heading covers a vast part of the globe, and thier colonization and trade naturally accounts for the diffusion and influence of weapons of many forms throughout the 17th-19th centuries. It seems that a great deal of misconception and misidentification is relatively common due to the often shallow understanding of the dynamics of this important history.

I am hoping that others here might join in this discussion so that we can learn more on this topic, not only on the espada ancha, which is associated primarily with New Spain and Mexico, but Spanish Colonial weapons which were often influenced by them.

Thank you so much for your very pertinant examples!

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 11th April 2008, 02:57 AM

Jim, you mention "Levine". I'm unfamiliar with most books on espada aside from Brinkerhoff/Chanberlain's book. Could you possibly list some good references from your past experiences, like the volume by Levine or others? Always looking to add to my lil' library.

BTW, any luck finding that Adams article? I did several general searches, but didn't come up with anything solid. Part of the problem being, whenever I use 'espada' as a search word, many articles come up in Spanish.

Jim McDougall · 11th April 2008, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Jim, you mention "Levine". I'm unfamiliar with most books on espada aside from Brinkerhoff/Chanberlain's book. Could you possibly list some good references from your past experiences, like the volume by Levine or others? Always looking to add to my lil' library.

BTW, any luck finding that Adams article? I did several general searches, but didn't come up with anything solid. Part of the problem being, whenever I use 'espada' as a search word, many articles come up in Spanish.

Hi Mark,
I'm sorry I didn't give the full reference, the book is "Levine's Guide to Knives and Their Values", by Bernard Levine, 4th edition, 1997. Actually the book is a great reference for sort of a catch all on knife esoterica, and really has nothing on the espada ancha.
I did find the Adams article online, on Therion Arms site, where Hal has placed some very helpful material. I once tried to get the Adams article through the publisher, but it was pretty complicated. Its four pages, and pretty useful.
Literature on these is pretty scant, as can be seen, so my thoughts were that maybe there might be others out there with either examples or interest in these.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 11th April 2008, 04:32 AM

Great! I'll check out Therion's site, as I was also interested in this article you mentioned. Thanks!

fernando · 10th June 2008, 02:53 PM

Hi Jim,
... Just for the record

This is a (lousy

) picture of the (apparently) only specimen of Espada Ancha at the Montjuic Military Museum of Barcelona.
Fernando

Jim McDougall · 10th June 2008, 03:59 PM

Thank you so much Fernando!!!
What an excellent example of these distinct swords, and its great to know that they are indeed represented in the museums in the Peninsula.
I'm glad to see this thread revived, as I think there is a great deal more that can be included. Recent activity for example has revealed the Brazilian form of these weapons, and until now, to the best of my knowledge, the South American forms have not been included in resources on these weapons.

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 10th June 2008, 06:00 PM

I didn't fix the text in the label but, with some effort, it can be read " MEJICO ( NUEVA ESPAÑA ) S. XVIII ".

Battara · 11th June 2008, 03:41 AM

I would say that the 2nd and last pictures of Robert Coleman's pictures look Filipino of Spanish influence from the turn of the 20th century, specifically Ilocos Norte region on the Island of Luzon.

Jim McDougall · 11th June 2008, 05:14 PM

Right on Jose!! The examples Robert posted were exactly the types I was referring to in my earlier note on Spanish influenced edged weapons in the Philippines, and nice ones indeed!!!

Thanks very much for the added detail on the regions these might be from, which really adds to the archived material I have hoped would become key in these threads. Your expertise in weapons and history of these fields of study has long been well established here, and I always look forward to the detail you add.
All the best,
Jim

7th April 2008, 05:50 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Espada ancha Among the very few articles written on the 'espada ancha', the distinct frontier sword of Spanish colonial Mexico, the one written by Lee Jones remains one of the most succinct and is among the other excellent articles that stand on our site. It is most surprising that these classic examples of true ethnographic weapons of the Americas have seldom ever been mentioned here on the forum. I would like to open a discussion here, in hopes that there may be collectors out there who might have acquired examples of these, and might share them for discussion. There seem to be early examples of these swords that were fashioned after 17th century hunting hangers, and often were mounted with long cavalry blades, later becoming more machete like with heavy forged blades. My interest in these interesting weapons began many years ago, as a very young collector in Southern California, I happened upon what I know now was an outstanding example of one of these. I recall it was extremely heavy, and there were engraved brass plates on the wooden grip. Unknowingly, I traded it away, and years later when I began studying Spanish colonial weapons, I always regretted the loss of that mysterious sword I know now was the espada ancha. I hope those of you fortunate enough to have any of these might share them here, and that that everyone here might find these rugged Spanish colonial swords as fascinating as I have. All very best regards, Jim

10th April 2008, 04:33 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jim, Here are a couple daggers and a couple of swords that I think might fall into what you are talking about. These have all been previously discussed on the forum but if anyone is interested I will post links to them. Robert Attached Images

10th June 2008, 02:53 PM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Hi Jim, ... Just for the record This is a (lousy ) picture of the (apparently) only specimen of Espada Ancha at the Montjuic Military Museum of Barcelona. Fernando Attached Images

8th April 2008, 02:40 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	...and there I was, surrounded by piles of notes In the pirate sword thread posted by M Eley, there is a great example of espada ancha shown from his collection, which has been recently identified as Brazilian. This has a large shellguard which is a striated steel handguard. I have seen these with English blades from the late 18th century, which suggests this form was likely early 19th century. Many of the espada anchas from New Spain also carry a clamshell, though rather than an encompassing handguard, it is in the form of a langet. I have often wondered if these clamshells had any particular symbolism, or reason for being chosen as motif. Possibly the large shellguards of the 17th century hunting hangers often seen on English examples might have influenced the frontier smiths who skillfully created these hilts? It seems little known that the espada ancha had a degree of influence in other far regions of the Spanish dominians, in the Phillipines. It would be interesting to see examples of these weapons, which are typically of course identified with the terms applied to them locally. Best regards, Jim

10th April 2008, 05:47 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Robert, Thank you so much for responding! These very nice examples you have posted indeed represent the types of weapons I had mentioned in the Phillipines, and though not directly 'espada anchas', they do illustrate the Spanish influence on these weapons. The example with the interesting finger ring is typically identified as a 'Central American dirk' and as part of the Spanish Colonial influence sphere ( Levines, revised 4th Ed.1997, p.461, A.8). The Spanish Colonial heading covers a vast part of the globe, and thier colonization and trade naturally accounts for the diffusion and influence of weapons of many forms throughout the 17th-19th centuries. It seems that a great deal of misconception and misidentification is relatively common due to the often shallow understanding of the dynamics of this important history. I am hoping that others here might join in this discussion so that we can learn more on this topic, not only on the espada ancha, which is associated primarily with New Spain and Mexico, but Spanish Colonial weapons which were often influenced by them. Thank you so much for your very pertinant examples! All the best, Jim

11th April 2008, 02:57 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Jim, you mention "Levine". I'm unfamiliar with most books on espada aside from Brinkerhoff/Chanberlain's book. Could you possibly list some good references from your past experiences, like the volume by Levine or others? Always looking to add to my lil' library. BTW, any luck finding that Adams article? I did several general searches, but didn't come up with anything solid. Part of the problem being, whenever I use 'espada' as a search word, many articles come up in Spanish.

11th April 2008, 04:32 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Great! I'll check out Therion's site, as I was also interested in this article you mentioned. Thanks!

10th June 2008, 03:59 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Thank you so much Fernando!!! What an excellent example of these distinct swords, and its great to know that they are indeed represented in the museums in the Peninsula. I'm glad to see this thread revived, as I think there is a great deal more that can be included. Recent activity for example has revealed the Brazilian form of these weapons, and until now, to the best of my knowledge, the South American forms have not been included in resources on these weapons. All the best, Jim

10th June 2008, 06:00 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	I didn't fix the text in the label but, with some effort, it can be read " MEJICO ( NUEVA ESPAÑA ) S. XVIII ".

11th June 2008, 03:41 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I would say that the 2nd and last pictures of Robert Coleman's pictures look Filipino of Spanish influence from the turn of the 20th century, specifically Ilocos Norte region on the Island of Luzon.

11th June 2008, 05:14 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Right on Jose!! The examples Robert posted were exactly the types I was referring to in my earlier note on Spanish influenced edged weapons in the Philippines, and nice ones indeed!!! Thanks very much for the added detail on the regions these might be from, which really adds to the archived material I have hoped would become key in these threads. Your expertise in weapons and history of these fields of study has long been well established here, and I always look forward to the detail you add. All the best, Jim