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Old 16th May 2018, 09:01 AM   #1
corrado26
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Default French (?) sword with strange number

I have in my collection a what I think French sword that has on both sides of its blade the number "1414". It is certainly not a date as the sword and the blade are probably from the 1720s, but what is this "1414"?
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:15 AM   #2
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I think the general opinion is that inscriptions 1414 are talismanic. Nobody seems quite sure of the meaning but it is certainly not a date.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:54 AM   #3
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A Walloon sword with a Passau blade marked with the talisman 1414, again meaning unknown by the owner who sold it (not mine).
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:30 PM   #4
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Default 1 4 1 4

An interesting explanation can be found in:
ARMES BLANCHES - SYMBOLISME, MARQUAGES, FOURBISSEURS, MANUFACTURES / Jean LHOSTE, Jean-Jacques BUIGNE / 3e impression / page
107 ff.
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canos
An interesting explanation can be found in:
ARMES BLANCHES - SYMBOLISME, MARQUAGES, FOURBISSEURS, MANUFACTURES / Jean LHOSTE, Jean-Jacques BUIGNE / 3e impression / page
107 ff.


Can you please tell us what it is, preferably in English, as many of us a). do not speak French and b). do not have access to that book? Thanks.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:26 PM   #6
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Interesting that this talismanic number was still engraved on blades as late as in 1720. It was profusely marked in Passau blades as early as in the 16th century, if not before. Quoting some source, this magic number was composed with multiples and combinations of the number 7, in a mode to plea for divine help (quote) in all directions, when unsheathing the sword. But most probably the source mentioned by canos has a different interpretation, which we would like to know of.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:09 PM   #7
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Default Conclusion " 1414 "

In conclusion it can said that for the inscription 1414 no exact signification can be found inspire of various attempts of interpretation. The most probable presumption is that the inscription engraved by the armourer was quite mysterious and was only known by the armourer himself. It was probably meant to offer some kind of protection, perhaps even a devine one.
" 1 4 1 4 " is a real talisman, undoutedly of biblical origin.
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Old 17th May 2018, 12:18 AM   #8
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https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...414/dunateo.htm

mebbe

Greek/Hebrew Definitions

Strong's #1414: dunateo (pronounced doo-nat-eh'-o)

from 1415; to be efficient (figuratively):--be mighty.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́dunateō

1) to be powerful or mighty

2) show one' s self powerful

3) to be able, have power

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from G1415

Citing in TDNT: 2:284, 186

Usage:

This word is used 1 times:
2 Corinthians 13:3: "you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

Cheers
GC

Seems to agree and timely

http://kingjamesbibledictionary.com...No/G1414/Mighty

The other is angelic and from Revelations. I would look at the King James period in relation to earliest use on a blade.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:23 AM   #9
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Yes these talismatic symbols meanings have been lost in time it seems. Perhaps itís pointless to seek to rationalize them too much as they are based on superstitions. I think palindromes and repeated numbers were considered particularly strong. These were tough times and people desperately sought solace where they could.

I found this which might be relevant too: http://biblehub.com/exodus/14-14.htm
The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still."
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:33 AM   #10
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A helpful collector friend sent me copies of the relevant pages of the above mentioned book. Here they are - in French language. The explanations are really very interesting and would be worth while to have them translated.
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Old 17th May 2018, 03:13 PM   #11
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Default If i may ...

Well, walking the esoteric path, one can find a zillion interpretations of the number, more or less romantic, so to say.
I hesitated in quoting the whole text written in work HOMENS ESPADAS E TOMATES (page 171) by Rainer Daehnhardt, from which i posted a short note in post #6. But once we are diving into those waters, here goes a rough translation of the whole text where the number 1414 is at stake:

" The wide blades with the mark Lobo de Passau ( a running wolf ), and with the magic numbers 1414 or 1441, are the oldest examples, which origin is attributed to Portuguese Colonial Arsenals and the realms of Dom Manuel ( 1495-1521 ) untill Dom Sebasti„o ( 1557-1578). It is worth to mention that the numbers 1414 and 1441 were not the date of production ( under which very often they were classified ) but uniquely the application of a number considered magic. The study of numerology, a fashion of the period, attributed to figure 7, as to its multiples and combinations, a Divine value. While the Arab cried Allah il Allah, the Christian would engrave the number 7 or, more often the 14 ( this being two times 7 ), or 1414 ( this being two times 7 plus another two times 7 ) or 1441 ( being 14 and the palidrome of another 14) on his blade, wishing to express this way his cry for Divine help in all four directions, as from the moment he unsheathed his sword. Number 1414 is also a reference to the Bible; Job, chapter 14, paragrapgh 14: Man dying, will he live again? Every days of my combat i would wait, untill my change arrived (in the Catholic version). Luther, much considered in Germany in the XVI century, has translated the Greek original, offering in simple language,the following interpretation to this Biblic quotation: When a man dyes, he will live again. So i will continue fighting until my moment comes."


.

Last edited by fernando : 19th May 2018 at 10:46 AM.
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