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1st September 2017, 10:27 AM | #1 |
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Amateur Mechanics: Illustrated Monthly Magazine, Volume 1, Trübner & Company, 1883
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1st September 2017, 01:48 PM | #2 |
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Since wootz has no relations to the city of Damascus, insisting on "wootz only" being a true Damascus is of dubious validity. Alex and Alan are right: it is just a matter of appearance, and sometimes it is even difficult to distinguish between wootz and pattern welded blades. Damascening is a well established technique, and refers not only to the above varieties, but also to etch-induced surface, incrustation with metals of different color etc.
It is just a general unifying term. Within it there are varieties of prettifying the object. Wootz and pattern welding are two different birds, but birds nevertheless: inhomogeneous steels. Partly, the confusion is due to the accepted usages ( as also shown by Tatiana): in the English usage wootz ( fulad, bulat) is a part of a broader group collectively called Damascus Steel, whereas in Russia pattern welded blades were traditionally referred to as one of the "bulats". Manfred Sachse knew a thing or two about blades:-), and addressed them together in his book on Damascus Steel. |
1st September 2017, 05:34 PM | #3 |
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Privet Tatyana,
This is a very nice example of German or Austrian work in Ottoman style, dating from the second half of the 18th century. The yataghan form was used by the Pandours, as you noted, as well as many other Balkan groups. By association, it became popular amongst officers (famously, Von Trenck) and this is where the unusual combination of hilt and blade originally arose. |
1st September 2017, 06:25 PM | #4 |
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The yataghan form often entered European weapon design.
French regulation Chassepot ( from which modern-made fake yataghans are sometimes made for a quick e-bay sale to abject novices), Austrian Pandour examples, occasional Russian examples ( sometimes even marked as "ZOF", Zlatoust Weapon Factory) and even Italian ones: G. Labruna from Naples. There are some French examples shown in the Splendeur des Armes Orientales, AFAIK ( I can check in the evening at home). However, this one (IMHO) is more of a hunting variety, based on the quillons. |
1st September 2017, 07:57 PM | #5 |
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Thank you all for the great information and for the interesting discussion!
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2nd September 2017, 06:23 AM | #6 | |
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Quote:
We know that these yataghan type blades were used in certain European armies in Pandour-type units long after the original units were disbanded mid 18th c. These large yataghan type blades seem to have been favored by cavalry officers of French cavalry around 1809 possibly slightly earlier in some Balkan regions, Illyrian if I recall. Yataghan type blades were even in some consideration as various forms were evolving in British cavalry swords in the opening years of the 19th century, and I believe a stirrup hilt cavalry example with yataghan style blade was carried by an officer of the 10th Hussars at Waterloo. As has been well described, the term 'damascus' is rather collectively used in describing the various types of 'watered steel' or patterned, and as also noted very confusing, so detail best left to our metallurgists here. It does seem that imitation forms of these kinds of steel were being made in some shops in Solingen, as well as in Russia (I think Tula) around this time, but production was extremely limited. There have been examples of other European officers swords with highly patterned steel blades known but again, not sure of exact character. The combination of these 'hirschfanger' style hilts were on occasion combined with 'oriental' style blades in carrying forward the convention of this exotic fashion favored by the earlier pandour forces as mentioned. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 3rd September 2017 at 05:30 AM. |
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2nd September 2017, 08:56 PM | #7 |
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Very interesting Jim, thank you a lot!
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3rd September 2017, 05:28 AM | #8 |
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Absolutely Tatyana! very nice example with some intriguing history, thank you for sharing it with us
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6th September 2017, 08:58 PM | #9 |
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..at the other end of the spectrum, here's one i just acquired, appears to be a yat bladed hunting sword/hanger. blade looks like the latter half of the 19c yataghan bayonet type popular thru europe. appears to have a side shell or rain guard on the right side. should arrive in a few days. no dimensions or markings were mentioned by the vendor.
organised mounted hunting was indeed the province of the rich, especially the nobility, but they also supplied their staff with these weapons, plain to start, and increasingly ornate as they wanted to show off their ability to equip their helpers. hunting swords, hangers, daggers, trousse, were carried by the lower classes, usually more functional than their bosses more ornate models that may not even be sharpened or ever tasted blood. as noted, the naval officers liked the handy hunting hangers too. spain issued some nice yat blades artillery swords for the last couple of decades in the 19c, some of which wound up in the states after our little war with them in cuba. i have one model 1881 marked 1895 and Toledo i posted earlier here somewhere...i like yataghan-like sharp pointies. |
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