3rd March 2023, 06:10 PM | #31 |
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4th March 2023, 04:12 AM | #32 |
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Not in my ballpark, but incredibly detailed information on these fascinating swords! Future generations of collectors will appreciate your great effort and knowledge on these!
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4th March 2023, 07:53 AM | #33 | |
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================================================== ======= On a more serious note, one reason I started this compilation of available online information on these swords, is because people lump Iberian falcatas with Greek/Italic kopis together. More often falcatas get labeled as kopis, rather than the reverse, because extant kopis are much more rare, and usually not as well preserved (and the ancient Greeks have much better PR than Iberian celts, so more people). But I want to emphasize that kopis and falcatas are very distinct in shape, and possibly in function too. P.S.: I regret not being able to provide the sources to all of the pictures/info posted. Some of them I have for a while, and just forgot where I acquired them. Last edited by Teisani; 4th March 2023 at 08:03 AM. |
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28th May 2023, 05:14 PM | #34 |
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The Combat Archaeology of the Fifth-Century BC Kopis: Hoplite Swordsmanship in the Archaic and Classical Periods by Thomas O. Rover.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ssical_Periods There are some nice videos accompanying the research paper on the author's YouTube channel, here: https://www.youtube.com/@thomasrover9295/videos In my opinion this is a good example of the "kopis/falcata interchangeability" tendency which makes things confusing for beginners wanting to study these two ancient swords. I really like the reproduction, but it's clearly a falcata, not a kopis. I also disagree with that statement in the paper that Fig.2 represents two kopis swords at the Met Museum. Unfortunately, the Met Museum seems to state the same here:https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/257576 But judging by their shapes, they are Iberian falcatas. Still, the paper is full of useful data, a recommended read. |
26th November 2023, 05:28 AM | #35 | |
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26th November 2023, 05:32 AM | #36 |
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Here is another interesting example that was exhibited a few years ago in Bulgaria, described as a Thracian weapon, despite it sharing some key characteristics with the Macedonian examples. I suppose that doesn't mean much considering the example found in King Suethes III's tomb also shared these characteristics, which is curious. This example is notable as it's the shortest and broadest I've ever seen.
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26th November 2023, 05:36 AM | #37 |
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Here is another example of the Macedonian type, though it is missing the blade. You can see a hole for the eye on the bird's head, which supposedly would hold a ruby.
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26th November 2023, 05:58 AM | #38 |
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Here is another example though I'm not sure how to classify it. Based on its curve (or lack there of), and shape of the handle, I'm inclined to say it's Greek, similar to the Macedonian types. However, the handle is clearly a horse head rather than the typical bird head, the handle isn't solid iron (looks like center would have been organic), the guard is missing the characteristic bump before the point (though your 7th example seems to be missing that as well), and the blade is rather short. I'm curious what you think.
I will say I have seen an example of a long (96cm, even longer than the Macedonian-type kopis), straight blade with a very similar horse-head, non-solid handle that was described as a Greek makhaira from the 6th -5th c. BCE — but since it lacks a curve it's likely not a "kopis", so I won't post a picture here. But given that context, it makes me think that this example might be Greek and precede the Macedonian examples from the 4th c. BCE. |
27th November 2023, 07:58 AM | #39 | |
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Excellent finds! Thank you!
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I would argue that the only remaining distinguishing feature of a kopis, as opposed to a xiphos, might not be the forward curvature of the blade, but the asymmetric hilt. Actually, not the entire hilt even, sometimes just the hook shape at the end. Here are two examples with symmetric guards, but hooked ends. Actually you can find a nice contrast between the two types in the Tomb of Lyson and Kallikles example you posted. Source: https://x-legio.com/en/wiki/kopis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A...de04a5a180.jpg https://hetairoi.de/en/kopis-prodromi Last edited by Teisani; 27th November 2023 at 03:24 PM. |
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27th November 2023, 04:21 PM | #40 | |
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Source: https://pronewsdobrich.bg/ekspozitsi...oogle_vignette https://rousse.info/тракийско-въоръж...#1083;о/ |
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27th November 2023, 05:50 PM | #41 | |||
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Although on this one the blade is almost straight, the handle is much more canted/curved. So the effect should probably the same. I'm guessing the blade tip is missing. Otherwise, I'm getting "parang' vibes coming from it Quote:
Source: http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.39375.html =============== I managed to find a better view. A photo by Michel Allal on Google. Last edited by Teisani; 28th November 2023 at 01:03 PM. |
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27th November 2023, 08:50 PM | #42 | |
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I think those two blades might look like xiphos blades because they're more straight than other examples, but they do still have a slight curve, and appear to have more weight towards the end of the blade, both of which factors would contribute to it having the moment of inertia of an axe. They also likely both are single edged (except for maybe the top third of the blade, like Parnell describes), in contrast to a xiphos. There does seem to be a grey area, but instead of classifying one as a kopis by the asymmetrical handle base I would still say the blade is more the defining feature. I like Tarassuk & Blair's classification, for example: a makhaira is generally a single-edged blade, and a kopis is a subvariant that is curved and meant to "cut" or "chop" as implied by its definition in ancient Greek. I have a hard time imaging that the Thracian example in that Bulgarian museum would be described as a kopis despite its characteristic handle just because it looks made more for thrusting than slashing. Although even that is an assumption because maybe it also is single-edged and has a moment of inertia similar to a short axe — it's hard to tell from the pictures. Essentially, I think how they would have used the blades dictates what they would have called them, and it's not any one of these characteristics that would have defined a kopis, but some set of all of them; the asymmetrical handle helps keep the sword in hand when slashing, and the single-edged, forward curving blade with the moment of inertia of an axe helps deliver a slashing blow. For all we know, the asymmetrical handle might have been slapped onto the blade of a xiphos because it was comfortable, or a status symbol, or the hallmark of a contemporary craftsman/workshop — and maybe that's what the Thracian example from Bulgaria is. |
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27th November 2023, 09:39 PM | #43 | ||
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Maybe calling it "Macedonian" is misleading, despite most examples apparently coming from Macedonian sites or graves. I mentioned my theory above of all of these characteristics being a hallmark of a contemporary craftsman/workshop, and I think the King Seuthes III example gives some credibility to it — it shares many of these characteristics (the blade looks different but it was heavily reconstructed), and King Seuthes III was a king of Thrace while it was subjugated by Macedonia, and soon after Alexander the Great died he rebelled against the Macedonians. So at some point maybe these swords were being commissioned by opposing armies? Quote:
What's interesting though is that this example you posted has a similarly-wide/thick guard to these two examples. The typical Macedonian examples have much more pointy guards. What do you think? |
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28th November 2023, 02:17 PM | #44 | |
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I found a high resolution photo of the Vasil Bozhkov Museum (Васил Божков) makhaira. It says "makhaira sword of the 4th century BC, with a unique hilt with an exquisite hilt representing the figure of a galloping horse with a copper-inlaid bridle".
Mahaira from Zlatinitsa - Malomirovo Quote:
Plus a few more, regarding which I have no further info. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kabile_001.jpg Last edited by Teisani; 28th November 2023 at 03:03 PM. |
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3rd December 2023, 06:17 PM | #45 |
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This is not necesarily related to kopises.
If you like ancient objects, but don't have the budget to travel around, then this flickr account might interest you. Enjoy! https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/ This one is very nice as well https://www.flickr.com/photos/prof_r.../albums/page10 Last edited by Teisani; 3rd December 2023 at 06:28 PM. |
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