Interesting converted pistol.

zalmoxis · 13th September 2005, 05:51 AM

I recently got this English old pistol that has been "converted". I think maybe in the Philippines? The mother of pearl is not as common in North Africa.
Any opinions welcome.

Tim Simmons · 13th September 2005, 06:18 PM

Hello zalmoxis. I do not really know anymore than yourself except it is not African. I just find the similarity of the mother of pearl to this Samoan food bowl most stricking. It would be very rare indeed if it had any relation to Samoa. On the bowl the triangular pieces I believe represent bats. I would agree that your pistol must come from that SE part of the world. Very interesting, maybe there are some gun people around. Tim

Tim Simmons · 13th September 2005, 06:49 PM

I think going on the designs, New Zealand is out of the question. However Islands towards SE Asia might not be too silly a thought. Tim

zalmoxis · 13th September 2005, 09:13 PM

I was thinking the Philippines but now looking at that bowl.....Where are the guns people :-)

Rick · 14th September 2005, 03:13 PM

This pistol could be a Persian copy of an English pistol ; M.O.P. was used as a decorative material in Persia .

This could also be either Afghan or Indian work .
Do we know for sure that this is an original English pistol or an Eastern copy of which there are many .

This Pistol could also be a composite piece from 20th C. India ; possibly an old piece dolled up to make it more attractive to the "Ones who travel for pleasure" have you checked for machine made parts such as screws ?

{added}

Another hint as to its origin may be the vestigial ramrod socket which to my eye looks to be too short to adequately service the barrel . If I recall correctly many Eastern cultures carried the rammer as a separate accessory on their person rather than attached to the pistol in the European manner .

Tim Simmons · 14th September 2005, 06:47 PM

Rick you are so right. In Anthony C Tirri's book Islamic weapons, page 238 top picture, bottom long gun, if you look with a glass you can see the same triangular pieces of mother of pearl. This does bring into question wether this pistol is English in origin knowing the reputation of so many items from Afghanistan. With a very critical stare at the pistol I might feel the plate on the grip end looks a little weak for what would have been quite an expensive pistol. I am sorry for raising false hopes but the mother of pearl struck my eye first, this is ofcourse what it is ment to do. Tim

Rick · 14th September 2005, 06:55 PM

Yes indeedy Tim .

Also take a close look at the hammer ; damned crude for English manufacture .

ham · 15th September 2005, 03:22 AM

Gentlemen,

This is an Afghan copy of an English military pistol made c. 1900-1920.
While the brass and m.o.p. embellishments are typical, pistols were also made which duplicated the form of the originals so carefully as to be indistinguishable from them, including complex features such as a captured ramrod and Tower marks on the lockplate.

Sincerely,

Ham

zalmoxis · 16th September 2005, 08:41 PM

Thank you for the info. I know that the piece was bought in U.K so the Indian/Afghan manufacture make sense. Any recommended books for Arabian Islamic weapons? The field is new to me.

13th September 2005, 05:51 AM	#1
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Interesting converted pistol. I recently got this English old pistol that has been "converted". I think maybe in the Philippines? The mother of pearl is not as common in North Africa. Any opinions welcome. Attached Images

14th September 2005, 03:13 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	After A Stroll Through Tirri This pistol could be a Persian copy of an English pistol ; M.O.P. was used as a decorative material in Persia . This could also be either Afghan or Indian work . Do we know for sure that this is an original English pistol or an Eastern copy of which there are many . This Pistol could also be a composite piece from 20th C. India ; possibly an old piece dolled up to make it more attractive to the "Ones who travel for pleasure" have you checked for machine made parts such as screws ? {added} Another hint as to its origin may be the vestigial ramrod socket which to my eye looks to be too short to adequately service the barrel . If I recall correctly many Eastern cultures carried the rammer as a separate accessory on their person rather than attached to the pistol in the European manner . Last edited by Rick; 14th September 2005 at 03:41 PM.

13th September 2005, 06:18 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello zalmoxis. I do not really know anymore than yourself except it is not African. I just find the similarity of the mother of pearl to this Samoan food bowl most stricking. It would be very rare indeed if it had any relation to Samoa. On the bowl the triangular pieces I believe represent bats. I would agree that your pistol must come from that SE part of the world. Very interesting, maybe there are some gun people around. Tim

13th September 2005, 06:49 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I think going on the designs, New Zealand is out of the question. However Islands towards SE Asia might not be too silly a thought. Tim

13th September 2005, 09:13 PM	#4
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	I was thinking the Philippines but now looking at that bowl.....Where are the guns people :-)

14th September 2005, 06:47 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Rick you are so right. In Anthony C Tirri's book Islamic weapons, page 238 top picture, bottom long gun, if you look with a glass you can see the same triangular pieces of mother of pearl. This does bring into question wether this pistol is English in origin knowing the reputation of so many items from Afghanistan. With a very critical stare at the pistol I might feel the plate on the grip end looks a little weak for what would have been quite an expensive pistol. I am sorry for raising false hopes but the mother of pearl struck my eye first, this is ofcourse what it is ment to do. Tim

14th September 2005, 06:55 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Yes indeedy Tim . Also take a close look at the hammer ; damned crude for English manufacture .

15th September 2005, 03:22 AM	#8
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Gentlemen, This is an Afghan copy of an English military pistol made c. 1900-1920. While the brass and m.o.p. embellishments are typical, pistols were also made which duplicated the form of the originals so carefully as to be indistinguishable from them, including complex features such as a captured ramrod and Tower marks on the lockplate. Sincerely, Ham

16th September 2005, 08:41 PM	#9
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Thank you for the info. I know that the piece was bought in U.K so the Indian/Afghan manufacture make sense. Any recommended books for Arabian Islamic weapons? The field is new to me.