dagger series nr4 THE BALLOCK

cornelistromp · 8th February 2014, 09:34 AM

I call this dagger THE Ballock , because it is one of the earliest and perhaps the finest of its kind .
This dagger came between the end of the 14th century and the middle of the 15th century. it consists of four parts;
a burr or walnut often blackened grip outof one piece with two large bulbous protrusions.
a simple guard plate.
a multistage blade often with a reinforced point.
and a washer .
The theory behind this multistage blade is that it has a blunt back and only one effective cutting edge so it could qualify in the early 15th century as a knife and therefor was allowed within the city walls, daggers were in fact prohibited.
The point is reinforced , this has nothing to do with the stabbing through armour (a Panzerstecher) but is for security for the point if you accidentally drop it.

These daggers are immense in size , around 40cm long with big grips.
Of this type are today still examples found in ancient canals in the Netherlands, probably thrown into the water by the city guard.

In art , the finest example of this type can be seen in a painting by Hieronymus Bosch , the arrest of Christ .
very clear is the blunt back, the multistage Blade and large bulbous balls.

herewith three exemples from my collection.

best,
jasper

cornelistromp · 8th February 2014, 09:41 AM

Jheronimus Bosch, the arrest of christ.

fernando · 8th February 2014, 12:24 PM

Extremely fine pieces, Jasper. Thanks for sharing this treasure.
Great illustration of an example by Bosch; Jesus doesn't stand a chance at its sight

.

Andi · 8th February 2014, 12:37 PM

Here is a ballock dagger of the 15th century possibly found in the center of Hamburg, Germany. At display at Museum für Hamburgische Geschichte (hamburgmuseum). Unfortunately there are no further details available as it is an old archaeological find without written record.

cornelistromp · 8th February 2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andi

Here is a ballock dagger of the 15th century possibly found in the center of Hamburg, Germany. At display at Museum für Hamburgische Geschichte (hamburgmuseum). Unfortunately there are no further details available as it is an old archaeological find without written record.

thank you for the example, precisely the same type.
nice to see the dating, 15th century
Heribert Seitz dated this type in Blankwaffen I, end of the 14th century .
I think this is probably on the early side, this type occurred between 1390 and 1460.

VANDOO · 10th February 2014, 06:26 PM

I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THESE DAGGERS AND FOUND THE NAME AMUSING MANKIND OFTEN SEEMS TO HAVE LIKED THE IDEA OF HIS WEAPONS RESEMBELING HIS PRIDE AND JOY.

I HAD NOT SEEN THE BLADE CONFIGURATION LIKE THE FIRST 3 EXAMPLES THEY ALMOST LOOK LIKE THE HEAD OF A PIKE OR SPIKE OFF A WAR HAMMER. THEY APPEAR ROBUST ENOUGH TO PENETRATE LEATHER OR HEAVY CLOTHES PERHAPS EVEN LIGHT ARMOR. I WONDER IF THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM WITH THE BLADE GETTING HUNG UP WHEN USED BECAUSE OF ITS SHAPE. I AM ENJOYING YOUR POSTS AS IT BRINGS ME NEW KNOWLEGE AND IS WELL ILLUSTRATED AND RESEARCHED , WELL DONE.

junker · 11th February 2014, 08:18 PM

Hello,
so I like to share mine as well.
It s one of the shorter ones and has a type of composed grip ending in some brass plates. The quillon / guard is decorated with some carvings and the ballocks with a sun or star shaped.
The item was found in Rotterdam, what the seller told me.

junker · 11th February 2014, 08:25 PM

Hello,
so I like to share mine as well.
It s one of the shorter ones and has a type of composed grip ending in some brass plates. The quillon / guard is decorated with some carvings and the ballocks with a sun or star shaped.
The item was found in Rotterdam, what the seller told me.

8th February 2014, 09:34 AM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	dagger series nr4 THE BALLOCK I call this dagger THE Ballock , because it is one of the earliest and perhaps the finest of its kind . This dagger came between the end of the 14th century and the middle of the 15th century. it consists of four parts; a burr or walnut often blackened grip outof one piece with two large bulbous protrusions. a simple guard plate. a multistage blade often with a reinforced point. and a washer . The theory behind this multistage blade is that it has a blunt back and only one effective cutting edge so it could qualify in the early 15th century as a knife and therefor was allowed within the city walls, daggers were in fact prohibited. The point is reinforced , this has nothing to do with the stabbing through armour (a Panzerstecher) but is for security for the point if you accidentally drop it. These daggers are immense in size , around 40cm long with big grips. Of this type are today still examples found in ancient canals in the Netherlands, probably thrown into the water by the city guard. In art , the finest example of this type can be seen in a painting by Hieronymus Bosch , the arrest of Christ . very clear is the blunt back, the multistage Blade and large bulbous balls. herewith three exemples from my collection. best, jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th February 2014 at 06:41 PM.

8th February 2014, 09:41 AM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Jheronimus Bosch, the arrest of christ. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th February 2014 at 06:43 PM.

8th February 2014, 12:37 PM	#4
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 202	Here is a ballock dagger of the 15th century possibly found in the center of Hamburg, Germany. At display at Museum für Hamburgische Geschichte (hamburgmuseum). Unfortunately there are no further details available as it is an old archaeological find without written record. Attached Images

11th February 2014, 08:18 PM	#7
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	mine Hello, so I like to share mine as well. It s one of the shorter ones and has a type of composed grip ending in some brass plates. The quillon / guard is decorated with some carvings and the ballocks with a sun or star shaped. The item was found in Rotterdam, what the seller told me. Attached Images

11th February 2014, 08:25 PM	#8
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	Hello, so I like to share mine as well. It s one of the shorter ones and has a type of composed grip ending in some brass plates. The quillon / guard is decorated with some carvings and the ballocks with a sun or star shaped. The item was found in Rotterdam, what the seller told me. Attached Images

8th February 2014, 12:24 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Extremely fine pieces, Jasper. Thanks for sharing this treasure. Great illustration of an example by Bosch; Jesus doesn't stand a chance at its sight .

10th February 2014, 06:26 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THESE DAGGERS AND FOUND THE NAME AMUSING MANKIND OFTEN SEEMS TO HAVE LIKED THE IDEA OF HIS WEAPONS RESEMBELING HIS PRIDE AND JOY. I HAD NOT SEEN THE BLADE CONFIGURATION LIKE THE FIRST 3 EXAMPLES THEY ALMOST LOOK LIKE THE HEAD OF A PIKE OR SPIKE OFF A WAR HAMMER. THEY APPEAR ROBUST ENOUGH TO PENETRATE LEATHER OR HEAVY CLOTHES PERHAPS EVEN LIGHT ARMOR. I WONDER IF THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM WITH THE BLADE GETTING HUNG UP WHEN USED BECAUSE OF ITS SHAPE. I AM ENJOYING YOUR POSTS AS IT BRINGS ME NEW KNOWLEGE AND IS WELL ILLUSTRATED AND RESEARCHED , WELL DONE.