A Danakil-Issa Gilè

Flavio · 11th February 2006, 02:35 PM

Hello guys, this beautiful gilè is arrive today

. What do you think? Anyone knows how to soften the dry leather of scabbard and belt? oil? Thanks

Luc LEFEBVRE · 11th February 2006, 02:51 PM

Nice piece Flavio, the scabbard is nice and simple.I am using neutral shoe polish with this kind of leather or nothing.Is it really dry ?
Luc

Flavio · 11th February 2006, 02:58 PM

Hello Luc, thank you very much. The leather is so dry that the belt has this shape and I cannot change it. Moreover i can't open the buckle! See the picture

!

Rick · 11th February 2006, 03:36 PM

Flavio , do you have an equestrian supply shop in your area ? There are some very good products for restoring leather to be had . One American product is called Leather Therapy .

www.leathertherapy.com

Flavio · 11th February 2006, 07:21 PM

Thank you Rick, i will try to find one.

sabertasche · 11th February 2006, 10:47 PM

Guys, for leather care I've tried just about every product available. By far the best I've used is also the least expensive - petroleum jelly (PJ). There are no additives, perfumes or exotic chemicals. It does darken leather but so does all the expensive stuff.

Before I put anything on the leather, I vacume it to remove all loose dust, fungus spores and insects. If there are beads or anything loose that you don't want lost in the vacume bag steal a pair of nylons for your wife or significant other, place the toe of the nylon over the vacume nozzle and you should catch anything the might come off that is the big.

Once there is no particulate material left I spray the leather with rubbing alcohal - this kills any bacteria and fungus that I might have missed. I then coat the item liberally with vaselene (PJ), wait a few days and then remove any excess.

Give it a try.

Greg

ariel · 12th February 2006, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Flavio , do you have an equestrian supply shop in your area ? There are some very good products for restoring leather to be had . One American product is called Leather Therapy .

www.leathertherapy.com

I used it and it is very good.

Lew · 12th February 2006, 12:21 AM

Hi

I would really try and stay away from using petroleum jelly it has a tendency to over soften leather. I use neutral shoe polish by kiwi or there is briwax you can by it on the internet but kiwi is cheaper and I have been using it for years with good results.

Lew

RobT · 12th February 2006, 03:07 AM

Flavio,
I had the exact same problem on my gile sheath. I used hikers' mink oil from Griffin. It worked with no ill effects. I just slathered it on and left it. Gradually the oil was absorbed by the leather (it takes a couple or three months at least). I have used mink oil on all my leather sheaths and have never had a problem. There are a lot of mink oil products out there and they probably are all quit similar, just avoid the ones that are more waxy than oily. The waxy products will just lay on the surface, dry up, and crack without softening the leather. Then, to add insult to injury, the dried up gunk has to be cleaned off.
Sincerely,
RobT

Rick · 12th February 2006, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I used it and it is very good.

I can't recommend this stuff enough ; the mold and mildew protection are built in . This product is made for tack and saddles ; very expensive materials that need excellent protection. I have used it on 100+ year old dried out leather with excellent results .

Flavio · 12th February 2006, 10:16 AM

Thank you guys for the help, but just another question: do all these products turn the leather darker? Thank you

Flavio · 12th February 2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Flavio,I had the exact same problem on my gile sheath.RobT

Hi RobT, could you post some pictures of your gilè? Thank you

RobT · 13th February 2006, 02:44 AM

Flavio,
I'll be glad to post some pictures but it will have to wait till this coming weekend because that will be the first opportunity that I'll have to photograph in daylight.
Sincerely,
RobT

Mark · 13th February 2006, 03:27 PM

Nice knife. I love the brass tip on the scabbard. I once ran into a pair of Afar (related to the Issa, but deadly -- literally -- enemies). One very seriously patted his gile` and said something I did not understand. I wasn't sure if he was offering to sell me the knife, or gut me. They eventually carried on their walk leaving my intestines intact, so I guess it was an offer to sell.

This was in the Awash game park in Ethiopia, by the way.

It was before my collecting fever took hold, so I wasn't quick to pounce, aside from the fact that I was pretty uneasy given what I had heard about the Afar, and the Issa for that matter. It is apparently a matter of honor for them to kill each other on sight (the joke being that if an Afar sees a poisonous snake and an Issa, they kill the Issa first), and the men are not considered real men until they have killed someone. Another Afar story -- I had the misfortune of being in the main hospital in Addis, the Black Lion Hospital (taking someone, not for myself). It was a very grim place. Among the injured sitting around pretty much in squalor waiting for attention, there was a group of three or four Afar, one on a stretcher stoically bleeding all over the floor, obviously suffering from a gunshot wound. Even more amazing was the fact that they were all heavily armed, with knives, rifles and bandoleers of ammunition. This was during the Communist days, when no one was allowed to carry weapons except the army and the militia, but I think everyone was afraid to try and take them away from these guys. My Ethiopian friend warned me not to look too much, or make eye contact.

Tim Simmons · 14th February 2006, 06:12 PM

You could try ghee which would have been used originally and you would get the authentic smell. Tim

Flavio · 15th February 2006, 02:35 PM

Tim, what is "ghee"

?

Tim Simmons · 15th February 2006, 03:48 PM

Hi Flavio, "ghee" is clarified butter which you came get in most large food stores in the Uk. If that is not so in Italy you should be able to find it in a good store of Asian food. You could use ordinary butter which is more solid and will smell more like vomit than ghee.

Tim

Mark · 15th February 2006, 05:21 PM

Its also pretty easy to clarify butter, mostly at least, and that is to melt it (without any browning, so do is slowly), and skimming off the solids that float on the top. What you are left with is a clear liquid which looks a lot like vegetable oil. It becomes a creamy solid once its cooled.

Flavio · 15th February 2006, 10:25 PM

Hello guys. Thank you very much for your help

!! To tell you the truth i'd like to make the leather more soft because the back side of scabbard in origin was sewn with copper wire, than the copper has been oxidized and broken. Now i'd like to replace this copper wire

. Thank you

ariel · 15th February 2006, 11:32 PM

Personally, I wouldn't replace any original part as long as it doesn't endanger the rest of the sword. I'd just take care of the leather problem and leave the wire as is.

Flavio · 16th February 2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Personally, I wouldn't replace any original part as long as it doesn't endanger the rest of the sword. I'd just take care of the leather problem and leave the wire as is.

mmmmmm, Ariel you're right

i will care of the leather without use new copper wire. Thank you

fearn · 17th February 2006, 12:09 AM

Another thought on sterilizing things in general, not just leather.

Since I work with fungi on occasion professionally, the three basic things the mycologists use to sterilize surfaces are alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and chlorine bleach.

Now, some dyes and things are alcohol soluble, so soaking a piece of leather or clothe to sterilize it might cause problems if the color isn't fast. As with clothes, I'd recommend doing a spot test before soaking any fabric or leather in alcohol. The nice thing about alcohol is that it evaporates off, so you don't get water damage, especially if you use high proof alcohol (like 70% rubbing alcohol).

Bleach obviously causes bleaching problems, and hydrogen peroxide is a form of bleach. However, peroxide is generally milder than chlorine bleach, and peroxide naturally decays into water and oxygen (hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, water is H2O), so in many cases, peroxide is preferable to bleach. I've also soaked wood in peroxide to stop rot, and it seems to work fine. One other advantage peroxide has it that it foams as it kills rot, so you can see if a) you've got a problem, and b) the peroxide treatment is working (or at least oxidizing something

)

So: peroxide, alcohol, or bleach? Spot test the material and see how the sterilant affects it before you treat. Basic point is that you've got more than one choice for stopping a fungal or bacterial problem.

F

RobT · 18th February 2006, 09:50 PM

Hi All,
Flavio, here are the pictures of my two gilê. I apologise for the blurriness of the close-ups of the hilt, drag, and buckle (I just can't figure out how to get clear close-ups with my camera). The first gilê, with its conical brass pommel and ornate sheath drag, is very much like yours. Blade length is 15.75" (40cm) and the hilt with pommel is 6.5" (16.5cm). The sheath appears to be cowhide and has a hair covered flap of cowhide attached to the upper half of the obverse. The belt originally had hair on its face but most of that has worn off. The belt buckle is hand forged iron. I believe the second blade is a more recent product whose flat 10.75" (27.5cm) blade was probably made from a car's leaf spring. The 4.125" (11cm) hilt has a brass wire wrap and is secured to the blade by a bent over tang in the same fashion as many Congolese blades. There is no scabbard.
Does anyone know where the design for the odd conical pommel and stupa like drag came from? Are they found on any other blades? I have never seen their like on anything else.
Sincerely,
RobT

Valjhun · 28th February 2006, 05:54 PM

And here is mine, without scabbard (well the main attraction) but a verry old one.

11th February 2006, 02:35 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	A Danakil-Issa Gilè Hello guys, this beautiful gilè is arrive today . What do you think? Anyone knows how to soften the dry leather of scabbard and belt? oil? Thanks Attached Images

11th February 2006, 02:58 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Luc, thank you very much. The leather is so dry that the belt has this shape and I cannot change it. Moreover i can't open the buckle! See the picture ! Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 11th February 2006 at 03:14 PM.

12th February 2006, 03:07 AM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	mink oil Flavio, I had the exact same problem on my gile sheath. I used hikers' mink oil from Griffin. It worked with no ill effects. I just slathered it on and left it. Gradually the oil was absorbed by the leather (it takes a couple or three months at least). I have used mink oil on all my leather sheaths and have never had a problem. There are a lot of mink oil products out there and they probably are all quit similar, just avoid the ones that are more waxy than oily. The waxy products will just lay on the surface, dry up, and crack without softening the leather. Then, to add insult to injury, the dried up gunk has to be cleaned off. Sincerely, RobT

13th February 2006, 02:44 AM	#13
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	Gilê pics Flavio, I'll be glad to post some pictures but it will have to wait till this coming weekend because that will be the first opportunity that I'll have to photograph in daylight. Sincerely, RobT

18th February 2006, 09:50 PM	#23
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	Gile Pics Hi All, Flavio, here are the pictures of my two gilê. I apologise for the blurriness of the close-ups of the hilt, drag, and buckle (I just can't figure out how to get clear close-ups with my camera). The first gilê, with its conical brass pommel and ornate sheath drag, is very much like yours. Blade length is 15.75" (40cm) and the hilt with pommel is 6.5" (16.5cm). The sheath appears to be cowhide and has a hair covered flap of cowhide attached to the upper half of the obverse. The belt originally had hair on its face but most of that has worn off. The belt buckle is hand forged iron. I believe the second blade is a more recent product whose flat 10.75" (27.5cm) blade was probably made from a car's leaf spring. The 4.125" (11cm) hilt has a brass wire wrap and is secured to the blade by a bent over tang in the same fashion as many Congolese blades. There is no scabbard. Does anyone know where the design for the odd conical pommel and stupa like drag came from? Are they found on any other blades? I have never seen their like on anything else. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

11th February 2006, 02:51 PM	#2
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Nice piece Flavio, the scabbard is nice and simple.I am using neutral shoe polish with this kind of leather or nothing.Is it really dry ? Luc

11th February 2006, 03:36 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Flavio , do you have an equestrian supply shop in your area ? There are some very good products for restoring leather to be had . One American product is called Leather Therapy . www.leathertherapy.com

11th February 2006, 07:21 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Rick, i will try to find one.

11th February 2006, 10:47 PM	#6
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Guys, for leather care I've tried just about every product available. By far the best I've used is also the least expensive - petroleum jelly (PJ). There are no additives, perfumes or exotic chemicals. It does darken leather but so does all the expensive stuff. Before I put anything on the leather, I vacume it to remove all loose dust, fungus spores and insects. If there are beads or anything loose that you don't want lost in the vacume bag steal a pair of nylons for your wife or significant other, place the toe of the nylon over the vacume nozzle and you should catch anything the might come off that is the big. Once there is no particulate material left I spray the leather with rubbing alcohal - this kills any bacteria and fungus that I might have missed. I then coat the item liberally with vaselene (PJ), wait a few days and then remove any excess. Give it a try. Greg

12th February 2006, 12:21 AM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi I would really try and stay away from using petroleum jelly it has a tendency to over soften leather. I use neutral shoe polish by kiwi or there is briwax you can by it on the internet but kiwi is cheaper and I have been using it for years with good results. Lew

12th February 2006, 10:16 AM	#11
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you guys for the help, but just another question: do all these products turn the leather darker? Thank you

13th February 2006, 03:27 PM	#14
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Nice knife. I love the brass tip on the scabbard. I once ran into a pair of Afar (related to the Issa, but deadly -- literally -- enemies). One very seriously patted his gile` and said something I did not understand. I wasn't sure if he was offering to sell me the knife, or gut me. They eventually carried on their walk leaving my intestines intact, so I guess it was an offer to sell. This was in the Awash game park in Ethiopia, by the way. It was before my collecting fever took hold, so I wasn't quick to pounce, aside from the fact that I was pretty uneasy given what I had heard about the Afar, and the Issa for that matter. It is apparently a matter of honor for them to kill each other on sight (the joke being that if an Afar sees a poisonous snake and an Issa, they kill the Issa first), and the men are not considered real men until they have killed someone. Another Afar story -- I had the misfortune of being in the main hospital in Addis, the Black Lion Hospital (taking someone, not for myself). It was a very grim place. Among the injured sitting around pretty much in squalor waiting for attention, there was a group of three or four Afar, one on a stretcher stoically bleeding all over the floor, obviously suffering from a gunshot wound. Even more amazing was the fact that they were all heavily armed, with knives, rifles and bandoleers of ammunition. This was during the Communist days, when no one was allowed to carry weapons except the army and the militia, but I think everyone was afraid to try and take them away from these guys. My Ethiopian friend warned me not to look too much, or make eye contact.

14th February 2006, 06:12 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	You could try ghee which would have been used originally and you would get the authentic smell. Tim

15th February 2006, 02:35 PM	#16
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Tim, what is "ghee" ?

15th February 2006, 03:48 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hi Flavio, "ghee" is clarified butter which you came get in most large food stores in the Uk. If that is not so in Italy you should be able to find it in a good store of Asian food. You could use ordinary butter which is more solid and will smell more like vomit than ghee. Tim

15th February 2006, 05:21 PM	#18
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Its also pretty easy to clarify butter, mostly at least, and that is to melt it (without any browning, so do is slowly), and skimming off the solids that float on the top. What you are left with is a clear liquid which looks a lot like vegetable oil. It becomes a creamy solid once its cooled.

15th February 2006, 10:25 PM	#19
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello guys. Thank you very much for your help !! To tell you the truth i'd like to make the leather more soft because the back side of scabbard in origin was sewn with copper wire, than the copper has been oxidized and broken. Now i'd like to replace this copper wire . Thank you

15th February 2006, 11:32 PM	#20
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Personally, I wouldn't replace any original part as long as it doesn't endanger the rest of the sword. I'd just take care of the leather problem and leave the wire as is.

17th February 2006, 12:09 AM	#22
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Another thought on sterilizing things in general, not just leather. Since I work with fungi on occasion professionally, the three basic things the mycologists use to sterilize surfaces are alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and chlorine bleach. Now, some dyes and things are alcohol soluble, so soaking a piece of leather or clothe to sterilize it might cause problems if the color isn't fast. As with clothes, I'd recommend doing a spot test before soaking any fabric or leather in alcohol. The nice thing about alcohol is that it evaporates off, so you don't get water damage, especially if you use high proof alcohol (like 70% rubbing alcohol). Bleach obviously causes bleaching problems, and hydrogen peroxide is a form of bleach. However, peroxide is generally milder than chlorine bleach, and peroxide naturally decays into water and oxygen (hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, water is H2O), so in many cases, peroxide is preferable to bleach. I've also soaked wood in peroxide to stop rot, and it seems to work fine. One other advantage peroxide has it that it foams as it kills rot, so you can see if a) you've got a problem, and b) the peroxide treatment is working (or at least oxidizing something ) So: peroxide, alcohol, or bleach? Spot test the material and see how the sterilant affects it before you treat. Basic point is that you've got more than one choice for stopping a fungal or bacterial problem. F

28th February 2006, 05:54 PM	#24
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	And here is mine, without scabbard (well the main attraction) but a verry old one. Attached Images