Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th June 2019, 01:22 PM   #1
Via Dixiane
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Default Handgonne or not ?

Hi !

on top of being a collector i do quite a lot of metal detecting in the south of France.

A few days ago i found what i think to be a "handgonne". I found it not far from a ruined tower and a small spanish church in the vicinity of Perpignan in the south of France. The spot is a strategic hilltop in a region where the kingdom of France and the Kingdom of spain fought over centuries.

When i cleaned it, it was packed with remains of black powder. But i can not find a "touch hole".

I read somewhere that some kind of early handgonne had no touch hole and were ignited by the front end of the barrel .

thanks for sharing your knowledge
Attached Images
   
Attached Images
File Type: pdf hgonne1.pdf (167.3 KB, 635 views)
File Type: pdf hand2.pdf (161.1 KB, 612 views)
File Type: pdf hand3.pdf (99.2 KB, 605 views)

Last edited by fernando; 8th June 2019 at 01:34 PM.
Via Dixiane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2019, 01:39 PM   #2
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Welcome to the forum, Via Dixiane .
I have re-uploaded your images using the forum attachment features and moved your thread to the European section, where members should come around to comment on your curious item.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2019, 11:54 PM   #3
BUCC_Guy
Member
 
BUCC_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 52
Default

Certainly too small for a handgonne, but not too small to be a signal mortar.
BUCC_Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2019, 11:59 PM   #4
BUCC_Guy
Member
 
BUCC_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 52
Default

Does the bottom have any kind of socket, or what remains of such?

Can’t edit my prior post... it takes a while to show up.
BUCC_Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2019, 02:24 PM   #5
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCC_Guy
Can’t edit my prior post... it takes a while to show up.
Be patient Guy. This is why you are not yet a regular member. Due to forum safety (spam) protocol, beginners posts wait in moderating status, before being validated.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2019, 02:37 PM   #6
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Via, i confess it is new to me that early gonnes might not have a touch hole.
Still this is a mysterious piece. Can you take a picture of it, but not inclined, you know, featuring its actual front look? and give us its measurements (height, width and bore) ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2019, 02:52 PM   #7
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 803
Default

To me, it looks like a breech from an early breech-loader, but why no touchhole I cannot say, unless it is filled with rust and hidden....

Best regards,
Richard.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2019, 03:19 PM   #8
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

A rather reasonable guess, Richard.
But then, a couple things to figure out ...
- Lack of a handle; could it have fallen with time ?
- Its conical format; aren't loading chambers more cylindrical, only tapering in their very end to couple (seal) with the barrel ?
Judging by its outer condition, it sure looks rather early. The bore opening looks perfect, though.
Let us see if a straight front picture and its dimensions enlighten us a bit further.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2019, 07:28 PM   #9
Via Dixiane
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Default

Hi everyone and thanks a lot for your interest.

No socket
240 gr
50 mm length
33 mm diameter
15 mm caliber

Should mention that the spot is also a 1793 battle field
Attached Images
    
Via Dixiane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2019, 12:41 PM   #10
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Amazing; i have seen quite a number of these things, also have a few in my little collection but, this one seems to be atypical, so to say. So small in size and with so small bore for a signal or celebration 'banger'.
Honestly, i wouldn't know what to make of it ... but hopefully other members will.
By the way Via, isn't that a touch hole ? It certainly looks like one .

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.