Chinese mace, truncheon, sai, iron whips etc.

estcrh · 30th October 2014, 02:48 AM

While discussing the origin of Shakethetrees sai
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19051 I realized that there were just not enough available images of antique sai. Without representitive images that have a known origin it is hard to make a definite determination on any weapon other than guessing.

I decided to put together a Pinterest gallery with as many examples of Chinese iron bar weapons as I could find, this included maces, sai, whips, etc. I have tried to weed out replicas as much as possible and I have tried to only include weapons that I know originally came from China or are easily identifiabe as being Chinese based on very close similarity to known examples.

Hopefully this gallery will be of use to anyone with an interest in these types of weapons. While researching this subject I came across only a handful of sai that were known to originate outside of China, these came form the Indonesian area, I have yet to find even one documented antique Okinawan sai.

One thing that is readily apparent is that the Chinese really liked the four sided profile, this creates a very sharp edge, the Indonesian examples I have seen either were round or eight sided, the Japanese jutte is also very rarely four sided.

http://www.pinterest.com/worldantiqu...ron-whips-etc/

josh stout · 6th November 2014, 03:55 PM

Nice photo collection. I am suspicious of the iron whips with dragon guards (Yazi) and round nodes along the length. I see what are likely fakes of these on eBay frequently, and even from a few dealers. Genuine examples of such things do exist, but every single recent example I have seen was fake. Some of the dragon guard maces are also suspicious while others are genuine. I have been fooled by some very good copies sold by honest people. In general, the nicer it looks, the more careful you have to be.

estcrh · 7th November 2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

Nice photo collection. I am suspicious of the iron whips with dragon guards (Yazi) and round nodes along the length. I see what are likely fakes of these on eBay frequently, and even from a few dealers. Genuine examples of such things do exist, but every single recent example I have seen was fake. Some of the dragon guard maces are also suspicious while others are genuine. I have been fooled by some very good copies sold by honest people. In general, the nicer it looks, the more careful you have to be.

Josh, it is quite possible that some of the items are not authentic antiques but I have no way of knowing for sure. Timo pointed out a couple that he felt were not authentic and I removed them. If there are a few weapons in the gallery that are not antiques they seem to have been copied from antique ones and are representitive example even if they are copies. If you feel that you recogonize a particular one that you think is a copy feel free to post a link and it can be discussed.

It is easy to be fooled by a photograph, I have been, my experience is that when you actually see an item in hand it is much harder to be fooled.

ariel · 7th November 2014, 01:08 PM

Respectable museums are chock full with fake Rembrands, the European section of the Wallace Collection has been found to have fake armour
sets and complex weapons.
How difficult, do you think, would be to fake a simple iron bar? Bury it for a couple of years and ... Voila!

I am becoming paranoid at my age, but professional offence always beats good defense.

30th October 2014, 02:48 AM	#1
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Chinese mace, truncheon, sai, iron whips etc. While discussing the origin of Shakethetrees sai http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19051 I realized that there were just not enough available images of antique sai. Without representitive images that have a known origin it is hard to make a definite determination on any weapon other than guessing. I decided to put together a Pinterest gallery with as many examples of Chinese iron bar weapons as I could find, this included maces, sai, whips, etc. I have tried to weed out replicas as much as possible and I have tried to only include weapons that I know originally came from China or are easily identifiabe as being Chinese based on very close similarity to known examples. Hopefully this gallery will be of use to anyone with an interest in these types of weapons. While researching this subject I came across only a handful of sai that were known to originate outside of China, these came form the Indonesian area, I have yet to find even one documented antique Okinawan sai. One thing that is readily apparent is that the Chinese really liked the four sided profile, this creates a very sharp edge, the Indonesian examples I have seen either were round or eight sided, the Japanese jutte is also very rarely four sided. http://www.pinterest.com/worldantiqu...ron-whips-etc/ Attached Images

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6th November 2014, 03:55 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Nice photo collection. I am suspicious of the iron whips with dragon guards (Yazi) and round nodes along the length. I see what are likely fakes of these on eBay frequently, and even from a few dealers. Genuine examples of such things do exist, but every single recent example I have seen was fake. Some of the dragon guard maces are also suspicious while others are genuine. I have been fooled by some very good copies sold by honest people. In general, the nicer it looks, the more careful you have to be.

7th November 2014, 01:08 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Respectable museums are chock full with fake Rembrands, the European section of the Wallace Collection has been found to have fake armour sets and complex weapons. How difficult, do you think, would be to fake a simple iron bar? Bury it for a couple of years and ... Voila! I am becoming paranoid at my age, but professional offence always beats good defense.