Garuda Kris

[SanibelSwassa]

For a discussion point of reference I’ll post two pictures of archaic kris that might help in the orientation of perspective for this hilt form. From there maybe we can delve into other symbolic references and how their origins might point in the direction of Garuda. Of course other possible interpretations for discussion would be seriously appreciated.

[SanibelSwassa]

Obviously we are focusing on the pummel at this point.

[kino]

Here’s another pommel of similar form. I don’t have a current photo of the whole sword.

[SanibelSwassa]

Kino… thank you!! Look for as many examples I can find to try to correlate characteristics, symbolisms and potential origin. And and all comments and thoughts are very welcome.

[David]

Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa

For a discussion point of reference I’ll post two pictures of archaic kris that might help in the orientation of perspective for this hilt form. From there maybe we can delve into other symbolic references and how their origins might point in the direction of Garuda. Of course other possible interpretations for discussion would be seriously appreciated.

While i realize that the image of Garuda has an impact all across S.E.A. i do have to wonder why an Islamic culture would place enough importance upon it to consider it's symbolism appropriate for use in this manner. I don't see much left in this abstracted form to be able to definitely identify it as a bird form, but it very well could be. But why Garuda? The Moro, more specifically the Maranao people, have a long history with the mythical bird Sarimanok for instance. Why are we fixated on Garuda as a symbol for an Islamic weapon?

[Sajen]

Another one, simple and in wood: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris

[SanibelSwassa]

I don’t know that I’d call this a fixation but rather a hypothesis. We have a Kris form that significantly deviates from all other Moro forms. I am suggesting that one possible reason for the divergence is that the form is dislocated from the traditions which bind other Kris making groups within the region. My working hypothesis is that the makers of this form are not the traditional Islamic Moro smiths with which we are accustomed. The pattern of the hilt form is significant and distinct from the other forms to a degree to which conjecture as to origin, symbolism and form change are IMHO questions we should be open to exploring.

As for the bird form… I would ask you to look again at the two archaic hilts I last posted and look first for the similarities, which I find to be very compelling. Once those are identified then questioning the dissimilarity and the possible reasons for them could help us determine different directions for discussion as to origin, etc. It is for this reason I’ve asked forum member to assist in locating any other reference pieces for this discussion.

Theories on other symbolic forms that could be the genesis for these deviations are definitely open for discussion and ideas in that vain will be appreciated. I would however point to the fact that the Garuda figure as far as cultural timetable relevance throughout SEA is very significant and all kris forms likely have some influence from exposure to these earliest of documented empires that encompassed these areas. However, Buddhist, Islam and then Christian empires definitely overlaid this same region. Also given that what I will refer to as “Native” mythology certainly existed and was likely significantly influenced by each of these successive empires over time.

My question as a starting point for this discuss is to dive into the possible answers, not to prove the one I think potentially viable.

With that said here is another pic I found in the forum that is interesting. I believe Ron may have owned this kris.

[xasterix]

Hi, my kris also has an indomalay hilt which Rafngard referred to as Jawa Demam. Like you, I'm also trying to research its history in the Bangsamoro timeline. I like how it fits in my hand.

[SanibelSwassa]

What a fabulous Kris! So far my research is pointing toward the Northern Coast of Borneo and I am still skeptical as to the Jawa Demam origin for this Kris style. The Hindu and Buddhist influences among the peoples of this area are well documented and date back to the 4th century. My working hypothesis is that the symbolisms and form that date back to these earlier societal beliefs stayed as a part of the culture and mythology and are the bases for the form we see in these more rare Kris. With that said the mythological, Sarimanok is definitely another potential source for this form, but given the area I am finding as the origin for these Kris I am not seeing that as likely. I think discussion on these points iare important. hopefully it leads us closer to understanding the group of smiths from which these blades come.

As a side note it appears there was significant trade in kris blades of high quality between Moro and Malay peoples and that Moro Kris blades became status symbols throughout the sultanate.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa

What a fabulous Kris! So far my research is pointing toward the Northern Coast of Borneo and I am still skeptical as to the Jawa Demam origin for this Kris style. The Hindu and Buddhist influences among the peoples of this area are well documented and date back to the 4th century. My working hypothesis is that the symbolisms and form that date back to these earlier societal beliefs stayed as a part of the culture and mythology and are the bases for the form we see in these more rare Kris. With that said the mythological, Sarimanok is definitely another potential source for this form, but given the area I am finding as the origin for these Kris I am not seeing that as likely. I think discussion on these points iare important. hopefully it leads us closer to understanding the group of smiths from which these blades come.

As a side note it appears there was significant trade in kris blades of high quality between Moro and Malay peoples and that Moro Kris blades became status symbols throughout the sultanate.

Thanks for sharing your research!

I'm not well-versed in Mindanao and Sulu art, but I can see traces of Moro patterns in our odd hilts. Also, to note- I read that jawa demam has a certain ambiguity when it comes to what's depicted on the pommel- sometimes it's indeed viewed of as garuda; but it can also be viewed as a crouched man carrying a snake. This is interestingly parallel to the prevailing symbols in Mindanao and Sulu- Mindanao, for its sarimanok, and Sulu, for its naga.