Assistance requested for the translation of inscriptions on an old yataghan

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 01:33 AM

Hello to all,

Below are some photos of a yataghan (actually, one of two) long ago acquired at auction. It was described in the auction catalog as being very old, but I am hoping the Arabic speakers here might be able to help me translate the five inscriptions on the obverse in the hopes that once of them actually dates this sword.

The sword itself is of all-steel construction, and its size makes me wonder if it was meant for use on horseback, as it measures over 80 cm (31 5/8") in length with a 67+ cm (26.5") blade of a heavy T cross-section (9.5 mm spine near the hilt). The steel hilt is engraved on both sides with a motif of a repeating pattern consisting of multiple fleur de lys and the Seal of Solomon. There are remnants of inlay all over the sword, and the reverse, which while absent of inscriptions contains a much more complex decorative design, maintains a significant amount of the original inlay.

On to the inscriptions...

As mentioned, there are five inscriptions on the obverse. Numbering them 1-5 (right to left), #5, the inscription closest to the hilt, looks as if it may be a date. I have posted photos below, and beneath each, have indicated which inscription can be seen in the photo. Due to the restriction of the number of photos one can attach to a post, I only have shown inscriptions 3-5 below so as to also show some of the other design work on the sword which may serve as indicators to validate a possible translation of age.

The sword:

The hilt:

The design on the reverse of the blade:

Inscriptions #3 & 4

Inscriptions #4 & 5

Close-up of inscription #5

Thank you in advance to any and all who can help...

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 06:31 AM

Here's the other two inscriptions... again, these are numbered 1-5 right-to-left:

Inscription #1:

Inscriptions #2-3:

TVV · 3rd March 2010, 07:19 AM

Hi,

I cannot help you witht he inscriptions (my guess would be the Seven Sleepers' names, but it is just a wild guess), but the date looks like 1795/96 when converted to Gregorian.

Have you tried etching the blade? I have a strong suspicion it is damascus.

Regards,
Teodor

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 08:12 AM

Hi Teodor,

Thank you for the translation assistance... So what year does that translate to as per the Islamic / Hijri calendar?

With regards to the blade, I think you are correct, and can pick up hints as such when I inspect it closely. Truth be told, following the suggestions I've read elsewhere on the forum, I've had limited success when attempting to etch my blades... This one seems to have been treated with Ren Wax or something similar, and I'm not too hip to upset the apple cart... It's faired well in the time it's been in my possession, and I'd hate to inadvertently reintroduce any corrosion process.

Cheers,

Chris

Zifir · 3rd March 2010, 01:00 PM

Hi,
Teodor is absolutely right, the yatağan is inscribed with the names of the Seven Sleepers. "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir"

But the date in the middle of the tuğra seems to me as 1214 / 1799-1800.

Best,

Zifir

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 05:20 PM

Thank you Zifir for your time and assistance...

Given the Seven Sleepers inscriptions, I wonder if the "closed eyes" eyelash pattern separating them is by design (no pun intended)...

Is there any chance you can shed some light on the use of the fleur de lis on the hilt?

I was also curious if - to the best of your knowledge or anyone else on the forum - the design work on the hilt and reverse of the blade might help me attribute it to a particular region (or even a maker)?

Regards,

Chris

TVV · 3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM

Chris,

The question of attributing yataghans to regions is one that even Dr. Elgood shied away from.

In Astvatsaturian's "Turkish Arms" she attributes these yataghans to Eastern Anatolia, due to the niello decoration and therefore similarities to niello from the Caucasus. She also admits they could be from the Balkans.

In Dr. Elgood's latest book, there are some examples with similar hilts, attributed to various Greek revolutionaries (and one short one I think actually attributed to Lord Byron). The book also demonstrates that niello decoration was often used in Yannina and Kotor.

Personally, I lean towards a Greek hilt.

The blade on the other hand, I think was produced somewhere in Anatolia, and then imported to the Balkans - Greek blades tend to be shorter and straighter as a general rule, while Anatolian blades tend to be longer, much more curved and often with layers of Turkish ribbon pattern sandwiched between the edge and the back of the blade. This is my own theory though, and I will not be able to support it if challenged, other than by providing examples.

I do not know the symbolism of the fleur de lis motif on the hilt, and am also curious to learn more about it.

Best regards,
Teodor

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 07:26 PM

Hi Teodor,

Thank you kindly for the wealth of information and the suggested attributions. It is self-evident I need to expand my reference library...

I guess that is the downside to collecting for representation of form, as rarely does one accumulate enough examples of a given type to justify the acquisition of material dedicated to the study of arms and armor of a particular culture.

Maybe the fleur de lis will further reveal information pertaining to the sword's attribution?

Cheers,

Chris

3rd March 2010, 01:33 AM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Assistance requested for the translation of inscriptions on an old yataghan Hello to all, Below are some photos of a yataghan (actually, one of two) long ago acquired at auction. It was described in the auction catalog as being very old, but I am hoping the Arabic speakers here might be able to help me translate the five inscriptions on the obverse in the hopes that once of them actually dates this sword. The sword itself is of all-steel construction, and its size makes me wonder if it was meant for use on horseback, as it measures over 80 cm (31 5/8") in length with a 67+ cm (26.5") blade of a heavy T cross-section (9.5 mm spine near the hilt). The steel hilt is engraved on both sides with a motif of a repeating pattern consisting of multiple fleur de lys and the Seal of Solomon. There are remnants of inlay all over the sword, and the reverse, which while absent of inscriptions contains a much more complex decorative design, maintains a significant amount of the original inlay. On to the inscriptions... As mentioned, there are five inscriptions on the obverse. Numbering them 1-5 (right to left), #5, the inscription closest to the hilt, looks as if it may be a date. I have posted photos below, and beneath each, have indicated which inscription can be seen in the photo. Due to the restriction of the number of photos one can attach to a post, I only have shown inscriptions 3-5 below so as to also show some of the other design work on the sword which may serve as indicators to validate a possible translation of age. The sword: The hilt: The design on the reverse of the blade: Inscriptions #3 & 4 Inscriptions #4 & 5 Close-up of inscription #5 Thank you in advance to any and all who can help...

3rd March 2010, 06:31 AM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Here's the other two inscriptions... again, these are numbered 1-5 right-to-left: Inscription #1: Inscriptions #2-3:

3rd March 2010, 07:19 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	Hi, I cannot help you witht he inscriptions (my guess would be the Seven Sleepers' names, but it is just a wild guess), but the date looks like 1795/96 when converted to Gregorian. Have you tried etching the blade? I have a strong suspicion it is damascus. Regards, Teodor

3rd March 2010, 08:12 AM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Teodor, Thank you for the translation assistance... So what year does that translate to as per the Islamic / Hijri calendar? With regards to the blade, I think you are correct, and can pick up hints as such when I inspect it closely. Truth be told, following the suggestions I've read elsewhere on the forum, I've had limited success when attempting to etch my blades... This one seems to have been treated with Ren Wax or something similar, and I'm not too hip to upset the apple cart... It's faired well in the time it's been in my possession, and I'd hate to inadvertently reintroduce any corrosion process. Cheers, Chris

3rd March 2010, 01:00 PM	#5
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi, Teodor is absolutely right, the yatağan is inscribed with the names of the Seven Sleepers. "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir" But the date in the middle of the tuğra seems to me as 1214 / 1799-1800. Best, Zifir

3rd March 2010, 05:20 PM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thank you Zifir for your time and assistance... Given the Seven Sleepers inscriptions, I wonder if the "closed eyes" eyelash pattern separating them is by design (no pun intended)... Is there any chance you can shed some light on the use of the fleur de lis on the hilt? I was also curious if - to the best of your knowledge or anyone else on the forum - the design work on the hilt and reverse of the blade might help me attribute it to a particular region (or even a maker)? Regards, Chris

3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	Chris, The question of attributing yataghans to regions is one that even Dr. Elgood shied away from. In Astvatsaturian's "Turkish Arms" she attributes these yataghans to Eastern Anatolia, due to the niello decoration and therefore similarities to niello from the Caucasus. She also admits they could be from the Balkans. In Dr. Elgood's latest book, there are some examples with similar hilts, attributed to various Greek revolutionaries (and one short one I think actually attributed to Lord Byron). The book also demonstrates that niello decoration was often used in Yannina and Kotor. Personally, I lean towards a Greek hilt. The blade on the other hand, I think was produced somewhere in Anatolia, and then imported to the Balkans - Greek blades tend to be shorter and straighter as a general rule, while Anatolian blades tend to be longer, much more curved and often with layers of Turkish ribbon pattern sandwiched between the edge and the back of the blade. This is my own theory though, and I will not be able to support it if challenged, other than by providing examples. I do not know the symbolism of the fleur de lis motif on the hilt, and am also curious to learn more about it. Best regards, Teodor

3rd March 2010, 07:26 PM	#8
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Teodor, Thank you kindly for the wealth of information and the suggested attributions. It is self-evident I need to expand my reference library... I guess that is the downside to collecting for representation of form, as rarely does one accumulate enough examples of a given type to justify the acquisition of material dedicated to the study of arms and armor of a particular culture. Maybe the fleur de lis will further reveal information pertaining to the sword's attribution? Cheers, Chris