Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th January 2020, 09:53 AM   #1
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default New Year New Keris

Hi everyone,

Acquired a new keris Madura (to me) and managed to bring it to Australia (thank you again Alan and Pak Rasjid for pointing me into the right direction).

Pamor: Lintang Kemukus
Dhapur: I guess it is diluar pakem (I’ve used 2 references: Dhapur 1920 and Keris Jawa antara Mistik dan Nalar and could not find a match)
Age: Probably not so old but maybe pre 1945?

I would really appreciate your comments as part of my learning curves into kerisology

Thank you
Attached Images
     
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2020, 06:38 PM   #2
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,073
Default

That's an attractive keris, but from what i can see i don't believe it to be pre-WWII. I suspect this is a fairly recent creation that has received a bit of an aging treatment. This artificial aging is not always done to deceive. It is s preferred look for some. I only see it as deception if it is presented in the marketplace as old.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2020, 10:08 PM   #3
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,473
Default

I do not know almost anything about krises, but this is definitely a masterpiece of pattern welding. Posibly made by the same pande that made the braided blade that was shown here some time ago.
Anyhow, this is a recently made kris and I believe it is less than 20 years young.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2020, 07:09 AM   #4
jagabuwana
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Default

Nice beefy blade, though almost certainly post 1945. I do like the Madura style ladrang wrongkos.

Dhapur "sinom robyong" came to mind but I think that requires sogokan.
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2020, 07:41 AM   #5
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default

Thank you David, mariusgmioc and jagabuwana for your feedbacks.

I agree that the blade looks too “intact” to be old.

Hi Mariusgmioc, which blade are you reffering to (braided pamor)? Is it the one with pamor Jarot Asem?

Hi Jagabuwana,

Yes due to the presence of the jenggot, my first thought was Sinom Robyong as well. However like you had mentioned Sinom Robyong was listed with sogokan which did not exist in my blade.

Cheers
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2020, 04:03 AM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagabuwana
Nice beefy blade, though almost certainly post 1945.

In practice post-1945 is really the same as saying post 1970s. There are not a lot of keris being made in the period between 1945-early 1970s. I think this keris was made after the 1970s, but really could be as recent as last week.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2020, 09:41 AM   #7
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,473
Default

mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2020, 04:20 AM   #8
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc


Thanks for the link mariusgmioc.

I can see some similarities blade-wise, though i believe the pamor on Anthony's keris is much more complex than mine.

Cheers,
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2020, 05:32 PM   #9
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustYS
I can see some similarities blade-wise, though i believe the pamor on Anthony's keris is much more complex than mine.

Well, i don't see too many similarities blade-wise between the two. I think you are correct that the keris Marius linked to is a more difficult pamor to forge. Your Lintang Kemukus is executed with great skill, but i see no reason to assume that the same smith was responsible for both these blades as Marius suggests. There are certainly more than just one highly skilled keris smith working in Indonesia at the moment.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2020, 07:39 AM   #10
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Well, i don't see too many similarities blade-wise between the two. I think you are correct that the keris Marius linked to is a more difficult pamor to forge. Your Lintang Kemukus is executed with great skill, but i see no reason to assume that the same smith was responsible for both these blades as Marius suggests. There are certainly more than just one highly skilled keris smith working in Indonesia at the moment.



I think it is not from the same empu. But nevertheless, this keris is a beauty. The steel looks like it is forged from old keris material. nice!
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2020, 06:40 AM   #11
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default

Thank you David for your additional feedbacks.

Thank you Anthony, I hope one day I'll find a Keris with pamor Jarot Asem like yours.

Cheers,
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2020, 08:03 AM   #12
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustYS
Thank you David for your additional feedbacks.

Thank you Anthony, I hope one day I'll find a Keris with pamor Jarot Asem like yours.

Cheers,


Hi

You are welcome.

FYI please, if you want this pamor; there is only 1 craftsman who can do that and in fact, he is the person who 'invented it'. There are only 4 such keris for the moment.

And if you want it, I can help you to link up with the trusted dealer who has the contact with this craftsman. I am making a new piece in March 2020 with same pamor but different dapur.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2020, 09:44 AM   #13
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,538
Default tamarind fibre

Anthony, re pamor jarot asem, the craftsman who produces this pamor might perhaps claim to have invented it, but if he did, he is certainly an extremely old man now. I don't know exactly how long this pamor has been around, but mention of it exists in old books that were published long before the current crop of Madura tradesmen became as talented as they now are.

I think perhaps your maker might have re-invented it, because I've never known anybody who could produce this pamor.

Regards,

Alan.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2020, 01:18 PM   #14
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Anthony, re pamor jarot asem, the craftsman who produces this pamor might perhaps claim to have invented it, but if he did, he is certainly an extremely old man now. I don't know exactly how long this pamor has been around, but mention of it exists in old books that were published long before the current crop of Madura tradesmen became as talented as they now are.

I think perhaps your maker might have re-invented it, because I've never known anybody who could produce this pamor.

Regards,

Alan.


Hi Alan, what you have wrote is true. Indeed, he could have invented a new but similar pamor pattern. I think the name he gave is braid pamor (english) according to a friend.

Last edited by Anthony G. : 15th January 2020 at 01:37 PM.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2020, 07:35 PM   #15
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,538
Default

Yes, possibly, new, but similar.

I've had a look at some old drawings of Jarot Asem, and it does differ a bit from your "Jarot Asem". Maybe he calls it "Pamor Koncir".
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2020, 04:45 AM   #16
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Yes, possibly, new, but similar.

I've had a look at some old drawings of Jarot Asem, and it does differ a bit from your "Jarot Asem". Maybe he calls it "Pamor Koncir".


Hi Alan,

Is it possible to share the image of the old drawings of pamor Jarot Asem?

Thank you.
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2020, 05:21 AM   #17
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustYS
Hi Alan,

Is it possible to share the image of the old drawings of pamor Jarot Asem?

Thank you.




allow me to be busybody first in providing the photo
Attached Images
 
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2020, 07:03 AM   #18
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,538
Default

Yep.

That's a tamarind if ever I saw one.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2020, 09:51 AM   #19
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Default

Thank you Anthony and Alan
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:57 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.