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Old 7th December 2018, 07:46 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default Execution keris panjang ? Age ??

Hello,
I'd like to show you this keris,
The person who give me it told me it comes from Sumatra
( his grandfather worked there and took it back in 1920-1930 )
nobody knows if it's older or not.

I'm not a specialist in keris at all,
I made some research on internet and find it look like what they call an execution keris. (?...)
It's a long keris: blade is 55cm long ( 21.6 inches),
total length is 70cm (27,55 inches)
The scabbard is just wood with rattan but I find the carving on the wrangka really nice.

the blade is in ( not so ) bad conditions ( especially on one side cf pictures )

What do you think ?

Thank you
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:48 PM   #2
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And the blade...
Thanks you !!
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Old 8th December 2018, 07:52 AM   #3
Jean
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Hello,
Yes, this is a keris panjang (long kris) and commonly called execution kris.
It is probably originating from Sumatra and estimated to date from 19th century. The sampir (top of the scabbard) and the hilt are in rustic and unusual style, see a more traditional piece.
Regards
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Old 8th December 2018, 03:15 PM   #4
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Hello Jean,

Really thank you for the informations especially about rustic sampir ( I thought it was called wrangka too ) and hilt,
do you think that this kind of rustic model was used for executions too ?
or more fighting/hunting small sword ?

Do you think the blade is ok like that or can I clean it ( with what ?)
for see a better pattern.
The corrodated-endommaged blade won't like an acid treatment isn'it ?!
( Maybe it received too much acid bath before !?)


Kind regards
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:02 PM   #5
Jean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin
Hello Jean,

Really thank you for the informations especially about rustic sampir ( I thought it was called wrangka too ) and hilt,
do you think that this kind of rustic model was used for executions too ?
or more fighting/hunting small sword ?

Do you think the blade is ok like that or can I clean it ( with what ?)
for see a better pattern.
The corrodated-endommaged blade won't like an acid treatment isn'it ?!
( Maybe it received too much acid bath before !?)


Kind regards


Hello Francantolin,
Yes, the top of the scabbard is also called warangka or gambar, but the name sampir is more usual in Sumatra or Sulawesi.
These krisses were more often used as a sign of status or for ceremonies than for executions.
The sampir and hilt of your kris are really unusual and may originate from East Java?
You can clean the blade by soaking it in a bath of undiluted vinegar (7 to 10% acetic acid, cover the container) or 10% citric acid (weak acid) for about 24 -36 hours with regular brushings with an iron pad impregnated with CIF for removing the rust (this is what I did on my blade). After carefully rinsing and drying the blade, it should be immediately treated with WD40 or Ballistoil oil for avoiding further rusting.
These blades have usually no apparent pamor pattern but this treatment should remove the rust and improve the aspect of your blade.
Regards
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Old 8th December 2018, 04:22 PM   #6
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THANK YOU !!!
If I try I'll sure post some pictures !

Kind regards/ have a nice weekend
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Old 9th December 2018, 02:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
The sampir and hilt of your kris are really unusual and may originate from East Java?

Hey Jean, since this "sampir" seems to originate in East Jawa, why not call it a wrongko?
Francantolin, i basically concur with what Jean has told you. Personally i'm not generally a fan of referring to these keris panjang as "execution keris". This is not to say that these keris were never used as such, but, as Jean has pointed out, these are status keris. They were not designed specifically to execute. I believe this idea has developed because firstly these blades are longer than the usually keris and seem like they would be more effective for the method of execution that has been described where the keris is inserted from above at the top of the shoulder and driven downward into the heart and secondly (perhaps) because those who hold the status to carry such blades might also have the power to decree executions.
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Old 9th December 2018, 07:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Hey Jean, since this "sampir" seems to originate in East Jawa, why not call it a wrongko?


Well, I am not definitely sure that the scabbard & hilt of this kris originate from East Java, it could be a local Sumatran style or just the imagination of the maker, and other opinions are welcome.
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Old 9th December 2018, 11:26 PM   #9
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Well, i was willing to accept somewhere in Jawa, but i've been wrong before.
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Old 10th December 2018, 04:39 PM   #10
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Hello,
Thank you David and Jean !!
Here other pictures of the ''special'' sampir

Kind regards
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Old 10th December 2018, 05:24 PM   #11
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Well, it's kind of a wonky fit, but i'm not convinced that necessarily means that it wasn't actually made for this blade since it is obviously work done by a non-professional carver.
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Old 11th December 2018, 08:07 AM   #12
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I agree and the hilt seems to have been made by the same "master carver"
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Old 11th December 2018, 02:41 PM   #13
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My opinion is that there was the need to dress a bare blade and somebody carved a rough hilt in an approximate Java style. As to the scabbard it probably was also roughly made for another blade, possibly by the same carver.
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Old 11th December 2018, 03:39 PM   #14
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Hello,
so a non professional carver - popular/peasant work,
do you think it was made by sumatran people ?

Has someone please an example of sampir with this shape ?

Kind regards
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Old 11th December 2018, 05:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin
so a non professional carver - popular/peasant work,
do you think it was made by sumatran people ?

I'm not sure why a Sumatran owner would carve dress for this keris that much more closely resembles Javanese dress, so my first inclination would be to think this blade was dressed for a Javanese owner.
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Old 11th December 2018, 06:42 PM   #16
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Hello Franc,

Quote:
do you think it was made by sumatran people ?

Has someone please an example of sampir with this shape ?

This really may be a one-off - very little chance to narrow down its origin, I guess.

I agree with the others that the blade is good and genuine Sumatran keris panjang if maybe treated too harshly, possibly for cleaning purposes (resembling the approach on Java).

There are genuine Sumatran adaptations of the Jawa hilt; this doesn't look like any of those though.

As the others have commented, the scabbard is odd and non-traditional. Also the wood selection and usage is unusual. Considering the craftsmanship, I could imagine that these were made for this blade though.

We also have to keep in mind that there was quite some influx of Javanese workers (early transmigrasi) into Sumatra already during the colonial period. Maybe this could account for the non-traditional approach in fitting this keris?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 13th December 2018, 06:50 AM   #17
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Waoh ! Really interesting and detailed comments !
Thank's a lot !
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