Another African knife

Freddy · 15th December 2006, 06:20 PM

I found this one, hidden in a corner of an antiqueshop.

At first glance, it looks like a spear blade which has been converted into a dagger.
As usual, when I got home, I started looking through my books. I could only find a resembling weapon in the book 'Afrikanische Waffen' by Zirngibl and Fischer.
Their knife is attributed to the Saka tribe in Congo.

But in my other books, I found nothing similar.

So....who can help identifying this piece ?

Total length is 47 cm, with a hilt measuring 13,5 cm. Part of the handle is covered with iron binding.

Freddy · 21st December 2006, 05:43 PM

No one has an idea ?

The Double D · 21st December 2006, 06:02 PM

That's a pretty big blade for a knife. If the blade wasn't so pointed and the hilt less decorative I would say possibly Zulu. But it's just for fancy for them.

Tim Simmons · 21st December 2006, 06:43 PM

Look at the blade of this spear, cut in half then put together with some brass tube. Alas I was the mug who paid money for it. I will retrieve from the loft space {where the horrors lurk like in the exorcist} and take better pictures of the blade in the next day or two.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 21st December 2006, 10:46 PM

Tim is right it looks like a spear point.
But the handle ???
Luc

Congoblades · 22nd December 2006, 05:35 PM

I have this heavy stabbing spear with simular blade. The blade is 51 cm long without the fitting; total lenght 158 cm. See 'Westerdijk' Groep 1, G (Nbaja) or H Ngbandi, Bati, Benge, Poto, Ngome en "Gens d'eau). I have no idee about the handle.

Freddy · 22nd December 2006, 06:11 PM

I agree to the fact that the blade of this knife looks like (or is) a spearblade.

Here is the pic which is shown in the book I mentioned when i started this thread.

Some time ago, I started another thread concerning a converted spear head. Perhaps this was more frequently done than we think ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=freddy

Congoblades · 22nd December 2006, 06:24 PM

This is an other spearblade with a knifehandle.

Freddy · 22nd December 2006, 06:34 PM

Spearblades were used as a means of currency. The owner could make spears or.....knives, daggers and swords.

Congoblades, I think your last pic shows such a currency blade.

paolo · 24th December 2006, 04:14 PM

Hello all,
I'm a new italian member of this forum. Be tolerant with my broken English.
I have a short dagger similar to the one of Freddy, but is only 21 cm long (blade is 12,8 cm.). I'm interested to its origin. Every help will be appreciated.
Thank You
Paolo

Freddy · 25th December 2006, 08:51 PM

Welcome to the forum, Paolo

You have a very nice little knife. It's definitively African (and without any doubt from Congo), but I'm not sure of its exact origin (tribe).

The iron binding on the handle is indeed similar.

Don't be worried about the size of your dagger. A lot of miniature knives and daggers were made in Congo.

Here are two other small daggers from my collection.

The one on the left is a miniature dagger from the Saka-, Mongo- or Kutu-tribes. Total length : 27,5 cm. Length of blade : 14 cm

The second one comes from the Tshokwe-tribe and measures 23 cm (blade : 13 cm)

paolo · 25th December 2006, 09:41 PM

Thank you Freddy for your reply.
Merry Xmas
Paolo

Flavio · 25th December 2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo

Thank you Freddy for your reply.
Merry Xmas
Paolo

OH FINALMENTE!!!!

At the end another italian here that loves african blades!!! Well in recent times i have started to love also other blades, but Africa is still my first love!!
PAOLO BENVENUTO!!
Well i have a little knive that shows an handle and a pommel identical to the one of yours, Paolo, but the blade is different. Now i haven't a pic but tomorrow i will post some. I don't remember the provenience (of course congo, but which tribe?) maybe tomorrow i will see some references.

ALLORA DI NUOVO BENVENUTO SPERO DI SCAMBIARE CON TE QUALCHE CHIACCHERA! CIAO
(sorry

)

paolo · 26th December 2006, 09:02 AM

I have only few African blades, I like more other oriental edge weapons.
(DI DOVE SEI ? ASPETTO TUE NOTIZIE SULLA MIA POSTA. CIAO)
(sorry for italian message to Flavio)
Paolo

Flavio · 26th December 2006, 11:09 AM

PM sent

paolo · 26th December 2006, 11:11 AM

For Freddy
Do you think that also if blade is so small, it might be originally a spearpoint ?
Paolo

paolo · 26th December 2006, 11:14 AM

For Flavio
I can't read your message (NORTON antivirus stops it). Send, please, it to my email account.
Paolo

Flavio · 26th December 2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo

For Flavio
I can't read your message (NORTON antivirus stops it). Send, please, it to my email account.
Paolo

Paolo, hai la ricezione di mails disattivata, quindi posso mandarti solamente PM. Dovresti entrare nel tuo profilo e riattivarla

Sorry guys we have a problem to how send mails

Freddy · 26th December 2006, 12:16 PM

It's not the size that matters

Look at this thread I started some time ago. The piece I'm showing there is also a converted spearblade, but it's huge !

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Freddy

Flavio · 26th December 2006, 12:50 PM

Here is my little shaver (seems!). The blade is another thing but the handle... On books I have found nothing like this but on http://www.mambele.be/ (Mr. Poppe's site) there is this one

http://www.mambele.be/knife_detail.p...0230&rowno=129

very similar attributed to the tribes Ngombe, Doko, Ngbandi, Mbudja.

paolo · 26th December 2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

It's not the size that matters

Look at this thread I started some time ago. The piece I'm showing there is also a converted spearblade, but it's huge !

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Freddy

To sum up, my one might be a Congo's tribe (Ngombe, Doko, Ngbandi, Mbudja like http://www.mambele.be/knife_detail....=0230&rowno=129 ) dagger obtained by a little spearpoint.
Paolo

15th December 2006, 06:20 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Another African knife I found this one, hidden in a corner of an antiqueshop. At first glance, it looks like a spear blade which has been converted into a dagger. As usual, when I got home, I started looking through my books. I could only find a resembling weapon in the book 'Afrikanische Waffen' by Zirngibl and Fischer. Their knife is attributed to the Saka tribe in Congo. But in my other books, I found nothing similar. So....who can help identifying this piece ? Total length is 47 cm, with a hilt measuring 13,5 cm. Part of the handle is covered with iron binding.

21st December 2006, 06:43 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Look at the blade of this spear, cut in half then put together with some brass tube. Alas I was the mug who paid money for it. I will retrieve from the loft space {where the horrors lurk like in the exorcist} and take better pictures of the blade in the next day or two. Attached Images

22nd December 2006, 05:35 PM	#6
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	I have this heavy stabbing spear with simular blade. The blade is 51 cm long without the fitting; total lenght 158 cm. See 'Westerdijk' Groep 1, G (Nbaja) or H Ngbandi, Bati, Benge, Poto, Ngome en "Gens d'eau). I have no idee about the handle. Attached Images

22nd December 2006, 06:24 PM	#8
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	This is an other spearblade with a knifehandle. Attached Images

24th December 2006, 04:14 PM	#10
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Hello all, I'm a new italian member of this forum. Be tolerant with my broken English. I have a short dagger similar to the one of Freddy, but is only 21 cm long (blade is 12,8 cm.). I'm interested to its origin. Every help will be appreciated. Thank You Paolo Attached Images

21st December 2006, 05:43 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	No one has an idea ?

21st December 2006, 06:02 PM	#3
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	That's a pretty big blade for a knife. If the blade wasn't so pointed and the hilt less decorative I would say possibly Zulu. But it's just for fancy for them.

21st December 2006, 10:46 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Tim is right it looks like a spear point. But the handle ??? Luc

22nd December 2006, 06:11 PM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I agree to the fact that the blade of this knife looks like (or is) a spearblade. Here is the pic which is shown in the book I mentioned when i started this thread. Some time ago, I started another thread concerning a converted spear head. Perhaps this was more frequently done than we think ? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=freddy

22nd December 2006, 06:34 PM	#9
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Spearblades were used as a means of currency. The owner could make spears or.....knives, daggers and swords. Congoblades, I think your last pic shows such a currency blade.

25th December 2006, 08:51 PM	#11
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Welcome to the forum, Paolo You have a very nice little knife. It's definitively African (and without any doubt from Congo), but I'm not sure of its exact origin (tribe). The iron binding on the handle is indeed similar. Don't be worried about the size of your dagger. A lot of miniature knives and daggers were made in Congo. Here are two other small daggers from my collection. The one on the left is a miniature dagger from the Saka-, Mongo- or Kutu-tribes. Total length : 27,5 cm. Length of blade : 14 cm The second one comes from the Tshokwe-tribe and measures 23 cm (blade : 13 cm)

25th December 2006, 09:41 PM	#12
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Thank you Freddy for your reply. Merry Xmas Paolo

26th December 2006, 09:02 AM	#14
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	I have only few African blades, I like more other oriental edge weapons. (DI DOVE SEI ? ASPETTO TUE NOTIZIE SULLA MIA POSTA. CIAO) (sorry for italian message to Flavio) Paolo

26th December 2006, 11:09 AM	#15
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	PM sent

26th December 2006, 11:11 AM	#16
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	For Freddy Do you think that also if blade is so small, it might be originally a spearpoint ? Paolo

26th December 2006, 11:14 AM	#17
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	For Flavio I can't read your message (NORTON antivirus stops it). Send, please, it to my email account. Paolo

26th December 2006, 12:16 PM	#19
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	It's not the size that matters Look at this thread I started some time ago. The piece I'm showing there is also a converted spearblade, but it's huge ! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Freddy

26th December 2006, 12:50 PM	#20
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Here is my little shaver (seems!). The blade is another thing but the handle... On books I have found nothing like this but on http://www.mambele.be/ (Mr. Poppe's site) there is this one http://www.mambele.be/knife_detail.p...0230&rowno=129 very similar attributed to the tribes Ngombe, Doko, Ngbandi, Mbudja. Attached Images