Indian gold koftgari Tulwar for sale !!!!

sandeepsingh · 15th September 2006, 05:32 AM

Dear Viewers !!!!!
we have the pleasure in introducing myself as the
manufacturer & exporter of Indian , mughal, persian -arms ,
armours,swords,daggers,knives, helmets,shields,damascus bars,billets.blanks,battle-axe,bows & arrows,sticks,huqqa,belts-buckles,khanjars,katars.khanda, shamshir,tegha etc.

We are specialize in antique reproduction & re-enactment.

we also produce customers desired items at reasonable prices.

I am selling very beautiful new Indian Karanshahi tulwar with fine gold koftgari inlay art,as we are the only koftgari artist in India
If anyone is interested in this tulwar let me know for the price of this tulwar

I will do my best to provide a goods that lives up to your expectations.
Looking forward to a favorable reply
hope for good business
thanks

regards,
Sandeep Chauhan
58 , amar nagar OTC 'b' block
sajangadh road
udaipur 313004, rajasthan
India
ph.no:91-0294-2432603

ErnestoJuan · 17th September 2006, 01:05 PM

quote " We are specialize in antique reproduction " end quote

Oh, you mean forgery?

Andrew · 17th September 2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnestoJuan

quote " We are specialize in antique reproduction " end quote

Oh, you mean forgery?

Ernst, there's actually a large market for European antique reproductions. www.myarmoury.com focus quite a bit of discussion on them.

To me, "forgery" only comes into play if a reproduction is held out as an original antique. Sandeep has been candid about what he's doing.

sandeepsingh · 17th September 2006, 02:58 PM

Yes, I can do the reproduction or re-nactmant in koftgari art
i.e gold and silver inlay art .
we have been involved in this arms and armors field for around 300 years.
We can make the copy of antique swords,daggers,knives,armour-set etc but
we do not produce wootz blades as we lost the art but my elder brother is working on wootz.

Is anyone Know Koftgari technique? If dont i can teach the koftgari art to those who are intereted in learning this art

I have made my website of new koftgari articles
www.freewebs.com/ancientart/
I have uploaded only few pics other is underconstruction

ErnestoJuan · 18th September 2006, 10:17 PM

Dear Andrew,

" To me, "forgery" only comes into play if a reproduction is held out as an original antique. Sandeep has been candid about what he's doing."

I agree that he is clear about his economics. However, I wonder if the "antique reproduction" objects created by Sandeep do the same thing? Meaning, do the objects that he and his crew produce truly state that the object is a reproduction?

To simplify, are these objects marked as being fake, not the real antique thing?

I bet they are not. Therefore in my humble opinion objects as Sandeep's "antique reproductions" are the nightmares of all collectors. Unless the objects are marked as being a reproduction (should be a simple stamp on the blade or what?). Dear Sandeep, do you mark that your objects are in fact reproductions?

I do not directly accuse Sandeep of forgery though if he does not clearly mark his produce as being "a repoduction" his produce are a pest for us collectors.

Kind regards,

Ernst.

sandeepsingh · 19th September 2006, 05:05 AM

Dear Ernest
As I already described that we only do Koftgari reproduction and not blade as we use new damascus blade.
We do not mark our objects as a fact reproduction as it already shows a new koftgari objects.

Whatever we produce, the objects itself shows that this is a new production.
I guess collectors and expertise can easilly differentiate between fake and original.

Regards
Sandeep

B.I · 19th September 2006, 08:45 AM

i understand ernests concerns. i am a big fan of keeping old traditions going and koftgari is part of india's decorative legacy.
however, there are many old hilts being re-decorated - maybe not to decieve but sometimes that is what happens.
yes, an 'expert' can tell the difference but not all collectors are experts (and not all experts are experts!), and not all dealers honest. so, there is a worry about new work edging in to the antiques market.
we all know horror stories of people being caught out and i todays market, it can be an expensive lesson.
sandeep, i hope you dont take this personally. you do clearly state that yours are reproductions, which is nice to hear. but, if a chinese dealer joined in, selling his warring state bronze swords as repros, he would get the same reaction, as we all know that whatever his intentions, his products end up trying to decieve through other more unscrupulous dealers.
your hilts are of an old style, but the blades are modern damascus. again, this is good to hear as you are openly stating that you are not here to decieve. but, then you mention your brother is working on wootz?
there are many other koftgari artists in india, and you are not the only one. i do know of others that decorate onto old wootz sword blades, which they cut down and weld on a t-section to convert into an ornate dagger with an 'original' blade.
i dont suppose this is the place to discuss this, but i just wanted to explain the lack of response and the slight caution from some members.

ariel · 19th September 2006, 01:18 PM

Ernst,
I am a committed opponent of reproductions on a simple ground that they do not carry history with them. The same is true about mass produced oils of the Italian and Flemish masters, Impressionists paintings etc.
However, in this case there was no attempt whatsoever to deceive : the reproduction was clearly and openly acknowledged. Thus, the word "fake" was not, in my opinion, appropriate.
I may not buy these swords but I would not be casting stones either.

Rick · 19th September 2006, 04:53 PM

As with guns, what happens when the object leaves the manufacturer's hands is totally up to the person who posesses it; he can use it or abuse it .
Koftgari is an art form that should be preserved and encouraged.

One could take any of my brand new kerises and artificially age it, distress the scabbard etc. in an attempt to pass it off as antique .
Does this mean that modern keris making should be stopped ?
Heavens no.

sandeepsingh · 25th September 2006, 01:56 PM

Rick
I am really agree with you !!!!
I dont sell my product as an antique,its a new product.
Mostly i do my work on customers demand or wish.

Is anyone is looking for desired or wanted item?
If so, let me know may be i can help you

Sandeep

ErnestoJuan · 14th November 2006, 06:48 PM

" Rick
I am really agree with you !!!!
I dont sell my product as an antique,its a new product."

So what is holding you back not to engrave a date on the new product, clearly indicating that it is indeed a new product?

Mind you; your intentions are good as you state that you sell new produce. On the other hand, a 3rd person with bad intentions will sell your artisan produce being the real antique thing.

My point is: your intentions may be good, there are loads of others whose intentions are bad, very bad, plain evil.

Mark it being new, potential problem solved.

Battara · 14th November 2006, 07:31 PM

Let me add one other thought. What Sandeep offers is also a service in that there are pieces that need restoration. I personally would love to know how to do koftgari for restoration purposes (but don't have the means to go to INdia and study under Sandeep at present). This is a needed service and he is fair and honest about his offerings. Also, what he does is not the cheap koftgari I have seen in the recent past but good quality work.

ALEX · 15th November 2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

...

Well said Battara. An honest, skillful and reasonable restorer and/or coftgari master should be welcomed and appreciated. They are not easy to find... to say the least.

Lee · 15th November 2006, 01:52 PM

If anyone wishes to continue with the extraneous directions taken by this thread, please create a new thread in the general forum to do so. This is the swap forum.

15th September 2006, 05:32 AM	#1
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Indian gold koftgari Tulwar for sale !!!! Dear Viewers !!!!! we have the pleasure in introducing myself as the manufacturer & exporter of Indian , mughal, persian -arms , armours,swords,daggers,knives, helmets,shields,damascus bars,billets.blanks,battle-axe,bows & arrows,sticks,huqqa,belts-buckles,khanjars,katars.khanda, shamshir,tegha etc. We are specialize in antique reproduction & re-enactment. we also produce customers desired items at reasonable prices. I am selling very beautiful new Indian Karanshahi tulwar with fine gold koftgari inlay art,as we are the only koftgari artist in India If anyone is interested in this tulwar let me know for the price of this tulwar I will do my best to provide a goods that lives up to your expectations. Looking forward to a favorable reply hope for good business thanks regards, Sandeep Chauhan 58 , amar nagar OTC 'b' block sajangadh road udaipur 313004, rajasthan India ph.no:91-0294-2432603 Attached Images

19th September 2006, 04:53 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	IMO Caveat Emptor As with guns, what happens when the object leaves the manufacturer's hands is totally up to the person who posesses it; he can use it or abuse it . Koftgari is an art form that should be preserved and encouraged. One could take any of my brand new kerises and artificially age it, distress the scabbard etc. in an attempt to pass it off as antique . Does this mean that modern keris making should be stopped ? Heavens no.

15th November 2006, 01:52 PM	#14
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 889	Hijack warning If anyone wishes to continue with the extraneous directions taken by this thread, please create a new thread in the general forum to do so. This is the swap forum.

17th September 2006, 01:05 PM	#2
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	quote " We are specialize in antique reproduction " end quote Oh, you mean forgery?

17th September 2006, 02:58 PM	#4
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Yes, I can do the reproduction or re-nactmant in koftgari art i.e gold and silver inlay art . we have been involved in this arms and armors field for around 300 years. We can make the copy of antique swords,daggers,knives,armour-set etc but we do not produce wootz blades as we lost the art but my elder brother is working on wootz. Is anyone Know Koftgari technique? If dont i can teach the koftgari art to those who are intereted in learning this art I have made my website of new koftgari articles www.freewebs.com/ancientart/ I have uploaded only few pics other is underconstruction

18th September 2006, 10:17 PM	#5
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	Dear Andrew, " To me, "forgery" only comes into play if a reproduction is held out as an original antique. Sandeep has been candid about what he's doing." I agree that he is clear about his economics. However, I wonder if the "antique reproduction" objects created by Sandeep do the same thing? Meaning, do the objects that he and his crew produce truly state that the object is a reproduction? To simplify, are these objects marked as being fake, not the real antique thing? I bet they are not. Therefore in my humble opinion objects as Sandeep's "antique reproductions" are the nightmares of all collectors. Unless the objects are marked as being a reproduction (should be a simple stamp on the blade or what?). Dear Sandeep, do you mark that your objects are in fact reproductions? I do not directly accuse Sandeep of forgery though if he does not clearly mark his produce as being "a repoduction" his produce are a pest for us collectors. Kind regards, Ernst.

19th September 2006, 05:05 AM	#6
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Dear Ernest As I already described that we only do Koftgari reproduction and not blade as we use new damascus blade. We do not mark our objects as a fact reproduction as it already shows a new koftgari objects. Whatever we produce, the objects itself shows that this is a new production. I guess collectors and expertise can easilly differentiate between fake and original. Regards Sandeep

19th September 2006, 08:45 AM	#7
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	i understand ernests concerns. i am a big fan of keeping old traditions going and koftgari is part of india's decorative legacy. however, there are many old hilts being re-decorated - maybe not to decieve but sometimes that is what happens. yes, an 'expert' can tell the difference but not all collectors are experts (and not all experts are experts!), and not all dealers honest. so, there is a worry about new work edging in to the antiques market. we all know horror stories of people being caught out and i todays market, it can be an expensive lesson. sandeep, i hope you dont take this personally. you do clearly state that yours are reproductions, which is nice to hear. but, if a chinese dealer joined in, selling his warring state bronze swords as repros, he would get the same reaction, as we all know that whatever his intentions, his products end up trying to decieve through other more unscrupulous dealers. your hilts are of an old style, but the blades are modern damascus. again, this is good to hear as you are openly stating that you are not here to decieve. but, then you mention your brother is working on wootz? there are many other koftgari artists in india, and you are not the only one. i do know of others that decorate onto old wootz sword blades, which they cut down and weld on a t-section to convert into an ornate dagger with an 'original' blade. i dont suppose this is the place to discuss this, but i just wanted to explain the lack of response and the slight caution from some members.

19th September 2006, 01:18 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ernst, I am a committed opponent of reproductions on a simple ground that they do not carry history with them. The same is true about mass produced oils of the Italian and Flemish masters, Impressionists paintings etc. However, in this case there was no attempt whatsoever to deceive : the reproduction was clearly and openly acknowledged. Thus, the word "fake" was not, in my opinion, appropriate. I may not buy these swords but I would not be casting stones either.

25th September 2006, 01:56 PM	#10
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Rick I am really agree with you !!!! I dont sell my product as an antique,its a new product. Mostly i do my work on customers demand or wish. Is anyone is looking for desired or wanted item? If so, let me know may be i can help you Sandeep

14th November 2006, 06:48 PM	#11
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	" Rick I am really agree with you !!!! I dont sell my product as an antique,its a new product." So what is holding you back not to engrave a date on the new product, clearly indicating that it is indeed a new product? Mind you; your intentions are good as you state that you sell new produce. On the other hand, a 3rd person with bad intentions will sell your artisan produce being the real antique thing. My point is: your intentions may be good, there are loads of others whose intentions are bad, very bad, plain evil. Mark it being new, potential problem solved.

14th November 2006, 07:31 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Let me add one other thought. What Sandeep offers is also a service in that there are pieces that need restoration. I personally would love to know how to do koftgari for restoration purposes (but don't have the means to go to INdia and study under Sandeep at present). This is a needed service and he is fair and honest about his offerings. Also, what he does is not the cheap koftgari I have seen in the recent past but good quality work.