Question about oiling

pakana · 26th November 2007, 07:15 AM

Greetings to all,

I would like to know, according to your opinion, when is the "best" time to oil your keris, tombak..Do you wait until you discover that the blade is dry? How many times per year? I was told that too much oil can rust the blade. Is that true?Any special technique? What's the best process in order to keep the blade in good condition?Thanx

george

tunggulametung · 26th November 2007, 01:24 PM

As we are in the stage of storing/preserving, then in my opinion we need to oil the blade when it is dry or almost dry. I don't very strict with days of interval, but for myself, I think each every 2 or 3 weeks. If we are storing pieces which is not arsenic patinated, it might need a little more attention as rust will likely easier to grow on it. Still, I think it is actually not a problem to oil it as often as we want, as long as we are sure that we didn't apply too much oil to the blade surface, just a moist thin film of oil. Too much oil will not grow rust on our blades, but might left moist and unpleasent smell to the sheath, which I believe in certain degree will cause the blade to rust more easily. I uses paint brush (mine #11), and plainly all purpose mechanic oil (Singer brand), once in a while with some mixtures of cendana oil (ah, this one always too expensive

). Brush and wipe with soft cloth on smooth surfaced blades and I uses brush only technique on raw surfaced blades.

Now, I left the space for senior collectors to share their opinions...

Thanks!

hoorn178 · 26th November 2007, 07:49 PM

Dear all,

As a lubricant engineer / specialist I can tell the following about anti rust using oils. There are different types of oil. There are mineral oils (often paraffinic based), vegetable oils (e.g. palmseed oil) or animal oils (e.g. fish oil). All these oils do not prevent rusting. They only give a simpel layer on the metal surface so oxygen and / or water are kept away. Animal and / or vegetable oils tend to oxidise much easyer than mineral oils and are therefor less suitable as anti rust oils. In the long run a straight oil (without additives) is a poor anti rust agent. It is therefor that you need to oil a keris regularly to keep te rust away. You could use an oil with anti rust additives in it. Do not use e.g. WD-40 since it does not contain any anti rust additives and is simple a mixture of mineral oil with solvent in a spraycan. I always use the multi spray of OKS (German brand) on my krises. This is a mineral oil with a mild anti rust additive (in a spraycan). It gives a far better rust protection and does not stain the metal surface. (This works perfect for me. If you try it it is for your own risk

).

Cheers,
Bart.

A. G. Maisey · 27th November 2007, 06:40 AM

This oiling question has come up a few times in the past, I think.

The "right" way to oil probably depends upon what your objective is.

If your only consideration is blade preservation, then the first thing you must do is never store your blades in the wrongkos.
Ferric material should not be in contact with cellulose material if you want to avoid rust. The ideal would be to store the blade bare, supported on glass or plastic, controlled temperature and humidity, protected from dust, oiled with a good quality gun oil manufactured specifically for long-term storage of firearms.

That's the ideal, and not many people would be prepared to go that far. I'm not.

On the other hand, if you want to oil to maintain a little bit of tradition, you oil with a fragrant oil mixed with mineral oil (liquid parrafin).

My personal approach is to drench with WD40 and let it dry off overnight, then my keris oil ( recipe elsewhere in the Warung), then I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve and replace it in the wrongko. The plastic sleeve prevents the oil drying out, and prevents ugly stains on the wrongko. The blade will usually not go back all the way into the wrongko when its wrapped in plastic, but if you store your keris in singap and keep them in a protected place, that does not matter.I have kept keris in this way for years without re-oiling.

If you want to keep your keris on constant display it may be best to make it a weekly job to lightly oil the blade, making sure that there is not an excess of oil that can run down the blade and drop onto the floor or whatever may be under the keris. At the same time dust and polish the wrongko. Keris left on constant display can get dirty very easily, and the finish will deteriorate much more quickly than if they are stored sympathetically.

What you use for oil, how often you oil, and how you store your keris depends entirely on what your objectives are.

pakana · 27th November 2007, 07:14 AM

Thanx a lot for your advice gentlemen!!

Pusaka · 11th December 2007, 02:54 PM

I think the advice of not using too much oil dates to the time in which mineral based oils were not used on keris blades. To my knowledge the oil base was coconut oil with essential oils added. The problem with this oil is that the coconut base can in time go rancid and encourage fungus to grow in the wooden sheath. The digestive enzymes released by the fungus can cause discolouration and damage to the wooden parts of the keris.

I think in ancient times oiling a keris was seen as feeding the blade, remember that many Indonesians believe keris have power.

I remember watching "The ring of fire" on dvd, a scene shot in Indonesia shows some court keris. When the blades have been washed people gather outside the court so that they can wash or even drink some of the water used. They believe that some of the power of the keris will be retained in the water even though it contains arsenic

26th November 2007, 01:24 PM	#2
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	As we are in the stage of storing/preserving, then in my opinion we need to oil the blade when it is dry or almost dry. I don't very strict with days of interval, but for myself, I think each every 2 or 3 weeks. If we are storing pieces which is not arsenic patinated, it might need a little more attention as rust will likely easier to grow on it. Still, I think it is actually not a problem to oil it as often as we want, as long as we are sure that we didn't apply too much oil to the blade surface, just a moist thin film of oil. Too much oil will not grow rust on our blades, but might left moist and unpleasent smell to the sheath, which I believe in certain degree will cause the blade to rust more easily. I uses paint brush (mine #11), and plainly all purpose mechanic oil (Singer brand), once in a while with some mixtures of cendana oil (ah, this one always too expensive). Brush and wipe with soft cloth on smooth surfaced blades and I uses brush only technique on raw surfaced blades. Now, I left the space for senior collectors to share their opinions... Thanks!

26th November 2007, 07:49 PM	#3
hoorn178 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 23	oiling Dear all, As a lubricant engineer / specialist I can tell the following about anti rust using oils. There are different types of oil. There are mineral oils (often paraffinic based), vegetable oils (e.g. palmseed oil) or animal oils (e.g. fish oil). All these oils do not prevent rusting. They only give a simpel layer on the metal surface so oxygen and / or water are kept away. Animal and / or vegetable oils tend to oxidise much easyer than mineral oils and are therefor less suitable as anti rust oils. In the long run a straight oil (without additives) is a poor anti rust agent. It is therefor that you need to oil a keris regularly to keep te rust away. You could use an oil with anti rust additives in it. Do not use e.g. WD-40 since it does not contain any anti rust additives and is simple a mixture of mineral oil with solvent in a spraycan. I always use the multi spray of OKS (German brand) on my krises. This is a mineral oil with a mild anti rust additive (in a spraycan). It gives a far better rust protection and does not stain the metal surface. (This works perfect for me. If you try it it is for your own risk ). Cheers, Bart.

26th November 2007, 07:15 AM	#1
pakana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 74	Question about oiling Greetings to all, I would like to know, according to your opinion, when is the "best" time to oil your keris, tombak..Do you wait until you discover that the blade is dry? How many times per year? I was told that too much oil can rust the blade. Is that true?Any special technique? What's the best process in order to keep the blade in good condition?Thanx george

27th November 2007, 06:40 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,716	This oiling question has come up a few times in the past, I think. The "right" way to oil probably depends upon what your objective is. If your only consideration is blade preservation, then the first thing you must do is never store your blades in the wrongkos. Ferric material should not be in contact with cellulose material if you want to avoid rust. The ideal would be to store the blade bare, supported on glass or plastic, controlled temperature and humidity, protected from dust, oiled with a good quality gun oil manufactured specifically for long-term storage of firearms. That's the ideal, and not many people would be prepared to go that far. I'm not. On the other hand, if you want to oil to maintain a little bit of tradition, you oil with a fragrant oil mixed with mineral oil (liquid parrafin). My personal approach is to drench with WD40 and let it dry off overnight, then my keris oil ( recipe elsewhere in the Warung), then I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve and replace it in the wrongko. The plastic sleeve prevents the oil drying out, and prevents ugly stains on the wrongko. The blade will usually not go back all the way into the wrongko when its wrapped in plastic, but if you store your keris in singap and keep them in a protected place, that does not matter.I have kept keris in this way for years without re-oiling. If you want to keep your keris on constant display it may be best to make it a weekly job to lightly oil the blade, making sure that there is not an excess of oil that can run down the blade and drop onto the floor or whatever may be under the keris. At the same time dust and polish the wrongko. Keris left on constant display can get dirty very easily, and the finish will deteriorate much more quickly than if they are stored sympathetically. What you use for oil, how often you oil, and how you store your keris depends entirely on what your objectives are.

27th November 2007, 07:14 AM	#5
pakana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 74	Thanx a lot for your advice gentlemen!!

11th December 2007, 02:54 PM	#6
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I think the advice of not using too much oil dates to the time in which mineral based oils were not used on keris blades. To my knowledge the oil base was coconut oil with essential oils added. The problem with this oil is that the coconut base can in time go rancid and encourage fungus to grow in the wooden sheath. The digestive enzymes released by the fungus can cause discolouration and damage to the wooden parts of the keris. I think in ancient times oiling a keris was seen as feeding the blade, remember that many Indonesians believe keris have power. I remember watching "The ring of fire" on dvd, a scene shot in Indonesia shows some court keris. When the blades have been washed people gather outside the court so that they can wash or even drink some of the water used. They believe that some of the power of the keris will be retained in the water even though it contains arsenic