Can someone help translate inscription

Bally555 · 9th January 2011, 02:50 PM

The 1st line of the inscription is

SRI SITA RAM JI SAHAI

The owner or sanctioner is asking for Ram and Sita's protection.
The 1st line i know is in hindi.

The second line at the end is stating the date which i believe is 1813 also hindi.
The beginning of the 2nd line is harder to translate as its Sanskrit i believe so and someone said its the sanctioners/owners name not 100% thats why i need conformation.

All help would be gratefully appreciated.

Aleksey G. · 9th January 2011, 03:10 PM

Bally,
Looks like a beaut of a tulwar, could you please show the complete view of the sword. Blade looks nice and beefy

Translators will be more inclined to help you if you abide by the forums translation request rules (show a complete view of an item along with a closeup of your translation request).

Bally555 · 9th January 2011, 03:27 PM

Sorry picture didn't go through first time as i didn't compress.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th January 2011, 04:30 PM

It's an interesting tulwar, but the third numeral could, to my opinion, also be read as '9', so it would, no doubt, be a good idea to involve some experts.
In any case, if it is VS 56-57 years should be deducted.

Bally555 · 11th January 2011, 08:39 PM

Thank you Jens for your input.

bhushan_lawate · 12th January 2011, 12:29 PM

Hi,

The first line reads "Shri Sita Ramji Sahai Fakir"

The last part of the second line is the Vikram Samvat 1813 which is :
"San 1813 Ka"

Need better snaps to translate remaining bit of this.

Looks like the name of the owner...

The script is "Devanagari" which is used for languages which include Hindi, Marathi and Sanskrit.

Regards,
Bhushan

Bally555 · 12th January 2011, 01:34 PM

Thank you so so much bhushan, I will post more pictures this evening. I will await your response.

Bally555 · 12th January 2011, 06:39 PM

More pictures for you to decipher bhushan.

olikara · 14th January 2011, 04:40 PM

Ok, I am no Max Mueller, but I can read the Hindi text as:

' Shri SitaRam Ji Sahay Fakir
Singh Ji (K') Lahour (Th') S(amvat) 1813 (K')'

Which may be translated as:
'With the help of Sita and Ram'
Sita and Ram being Goddess and God high in the Hindu pantheon.

Fakir Singh could be the owner/maker of the sword and Lahore could be the great old capital of the Punjab. 1813 is of course the VS year.

And Jens, I think the year is 1813 as I dont see the reverse loop for the 9 in any form whatsoever.

That's my 2 cents.

Jens & Jim: Do you think the hilt is of Punjabi type?

Bally555 · 14th January 2011, 05:09 PM

Thank you so so much olikara.
I have heard and read this hilt to be referred as a Punjabi T Hilt, butt ill leave it to a professional to confirm.

Jim McDougall · 15th January 2011, 12:09 AM

This is truly a beautiful hilt on this tulwar, and as I have been asked to offer comments, I would note I am by far no professional, nor linguist. It is actually not realistic in my opinion to attempt to pidgeon hole a classification on this hilt form as there is to date (and to my knowledge) no reliable typology of tulwar hilts that is able to accurately categorize them. In Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour") the author has presented the only work which attempts to do this. However, the classifications are ambiguous and do not clearly establish period nor region, simply alluding to these by the use of descriptive terms using place names or rulers names.

I should note that I am unaware of any classification using the term 'Punjabi' for a hilt form, nor the letter T along with it. Since the Punjab is of course central to the Sikh Faith, I would consider that perhaps this might be a classification noted in Sikh resources with regards to tulwar hilts, however I do not have access to such material.

As this hilt's inscription in apparantly is in Devanagari, with date 1813 (V.S.) it would seem to correspond to Hindi in language. The mention of Lahore of course again suggests Punjab, which with the Hindi inscription sugggests probably a Rajput weapon. Tulwars were used by Rajputs, Mughals and Sikhs, but not common among Hindus, so that is my line of thinking.

If this were a Sikh weapon, it is my impression this script would be in Gurmukhi, and while Devanagari is used in writing Marathi, they did not typically use tulwars as far as I know, and favored the khanda/firangi.

I hope these notes might be of some help, but I think in these cases, the inscriptions are the most reliable identifiers.

All best regards,
Jim

9th January 2011, 02:50 PM	#1
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	Can someone help translate inscription The 1st line of the inscription is SRI SITA RAM JI SAHAI The owner or sanctioner is asking for Ram and Sita's protection. The 1st line i know is in hindi. The second line at the end is stating the date which i believe is 1813 also hindi. The beginning of the 2nd line is harder to translate as its Sanskrit i believe so and someone said its the sanctioners/owners name not 100% thats why i need conformation. All help would be gratefully appreciated. Attached Images

9th January 2011, 03:27 PM	#3
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	Picture of tulwar in full Sorry picture didn't go through first time as i didn't compress. Attached Images

12th January 2011, 06:39 PM	#8
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	More pictures for you to decipher bhushan. Attached Images

14th January 2011, 04:40 PM	#9
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 100	A translation Ok, I am no Max Mueller, but I can read the Hindi text as: ' Shri SitaRam Ji Sahay Fakir Singh Ji (K') Lahour (Th') S(amvat) 1813 (K')' Which may be translated as: 'With the help of Sita and Ram' Sita and Ram being Goddess and God high in the Hindu pantheon. Fakir Singh could be the owner/maker of the sword and Lahore could be the great old capital of the Punjab. 1813 is of course the VS year. And Jens, I think the year is 1813 as I dont see the reverse loop for the 9 in any form whatsoever. That's my 2 cents. Jens & Jim: Do you think the hilt is of Punjabi type?

14th January 2011, 05:09 PM	#10
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	Thank you so so much olikara. I have heard and read this hilt to be referred as a Punjabi T Hilt, butt ill leave it to a professional to confirm. Last edited by Bally555; 14th January 2011 at 05:33 PM.

9th January 2011, 03:10 PM	#2
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Bally, Looks like a beaut of a tulwar, could you please show the complete view of the sword. Blade looks nice and beefy Translators will be more inclined to help you if you abide by the forums translation request rules (show a complete view of an item along with a closeup of your translation request).

9th January 2011, 04:30 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	It's an interesting tulwar, but the third numeral could, to my opinion, also be read as '9', so it would, no doubt, be a good idea to involve some experts. In any case, if it is VS 56-57 years should be deducted.

11th January 2011, 08:39 PM	#5
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	Thank you Jens for your input.

12th January 2011, 12:29 PM	#6
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi, The first line reads "Shri Sita Ramji Sahai Fakir" The last part of the second line is the Vikram Samvat 1813 which is : "San 1813 Ka" Need better snaps to translate remaining bit of this. Looks like the name of the owner... The script is "Devanagari" which is used for languages which include Hindi, Marathi and Sanskrit. Regards, Bhushan

12th January 2011, 01:34 PM	#7
Bally555 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17	Thank you so so much bhushan, I will post more pictures this evening. I will await your response.

15th January 2011, 12:09 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	This is truly a beautiful hilt on this tulwar, and as I have been asked to offer comments, I would note I am by far no professional, nor linguist. It is actually not realistic in my opinion to attempt to pidgeon hole a classification on this hilt form as there is to date (and to my knowledge) no reliable typology of tulwar hilts that is able to accurately categorize them. In Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour") the author has presented the only work which attempts to do this. However, the classifications are ambiguous and do not clearly establish period nor region, simply alluding to these by the use of descriptive terms using place names or rulers names. I should note that I am unaware of any classification using the term 'Punjabi' for a hilt form, nor the letter T along with it. Since the Punjab is of course central to the Sikh Faith, I would consider that perhaps this might be a classification noted in Sikh resources with regards to tulwar hilts, however I do not have access to such material. As this hilt's inscription in apparantly is in Devanagari, with date 1813 (V.S.) it would seem to correspond to Hindi in language. The mention of Lahore of course again suggests Punjab, which with the Hindi inscription sugggests probably a Rajput weapon. Tulwars were used by Rajputs, Mughals and Sikhs, but not common among Hindus, so that is my line of thinking. If this were a Sikh weapon, it is my impression this script would be in Gurmukhi, and while Devanagari is used in writing Marathi, they did not typically use tulwars as far as I know, and favored the khanda/firangi. I hope these notes might be of some help, but I think in these cases, the inscriptions are the most reliable identifiers. All best regards, Jim