Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th January 2011, 01:50 PM   #1
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default Can someone help translate inscription

The 1st line of the inscription is

SRI SITA RAM JI SAHAI

The owner or sanctioner is asking for Ram and Sita's protection.
The 1st line i know is in hindi.

The second line at the end is stating the date which i believe is 1813 also hindi.
The beginning of the 2nd line is harder to translate as its Sanskrit i believe so and someone said its the sanctioners/owners name not 100% thats why i need conformation.

All help would be gratefully appreciated.
Attached Images
   
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2011, 02:10 PM   #2
Aleksey G.
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 67
Default

Bally,
Looks like a beaut of a tulwar, could you please show the complete view of the sword. Blade looks nice and beefy Translators will be more inclined to help you if you abide by the forums translation request rules (show a complete view of an item along with a closeup of your translation request).
Aleksey G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2011, 02:27 PM   #3
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default Picture of tulwar in full

Sorry picture didn't go through first time as i didn't compress.
Attached Images
 
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2011, 03:30 PM   #4
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,706
Default

It's an interesting tulwar, but the third numeral could, to my opinion, also be read as '9', so it would, no doubt, be a good idea to involve some experts.
In any case, if it is VS 56-57 years should be deducted.
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2011, 07:39 PM   #5
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default

Thank you Jens for your input.
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2011, 11:29 AM   #6
bhushan_lawate
Member
 
bhushan_lawate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: India
Posts: 77
Default

Hi,

The first line reads "Shri Sita Ramji Sahai Fakir"

The last part of the second line is the Vikram Samvat 1813 which is :
"San 1813 Ka"

Need better snaps to translate remaining bit of this.

Looks like the name of the owner...

The script is "Devanagari" which is used for languages which include Hindi, Marathi and Sanskrit.

Regards,
Bhushan
bhushan_lawate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2011, 12:34 PM   #7
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default

Thank you so so much bhushan, I will post more pictures this evening. I will await your response.
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2011, 05:39 PM   #8
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default

More pictures for you to decipher bhushan.
Attached Images
    
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2011, 03:40 PM   #9
olikara
Member
 
olikara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: India
Posts: 100
Lightbulb A translation

Ok, I am no Max Mueller, but I can read the Hindi text as:

' Shri SitaRam Ji Sahay Fakir
Singh Ji (K') Lahour (Th') S(amvat) 1813 (K')'

Which may be translated as:
'With the help of Sita and Ram'
Sita and Ram being Goddess and God high in the Hindu pantheon.

Fakir Singh could be the owner/maker of the sword and Lahore could be the great old capital of the Punjab. 1813 is of course the VS year.

And Jens, I think the year is 1813 as I dont see the reverse loop for the 9 in any form whatsoever.

That's my 2 cents.

Jens & Jim: Do you think the hilt is of Punjabi type?
olikara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2011, 04:09 PM   #10
Bally555
Member
 
Bally555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Default

Thank you so so much olikara.
I have heard and read this hilt to be referred as a Punjabi T Hilt, butt ill leave it to a professional to confirm.

Last edited by Bally555 : 14th January 2011 at 04:33 PM.
Bally555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2011, 11:09 PM   #11
Jim McDougall
Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 7,828
Default

This is truly a beautiful hilt on this tulwar, and as I have been asked to offer comments, I would note I am by far no professional, nor linguist. It is actually not realistic in my opinion to attempt to pidgeon hole a classification on this hilt form as there is to date (and to my knowledge) no reliable typology of tulwar hilts that is able to accurately categorize them. In Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour") the author has presented the only work which attempts to do this. However, the classifications are ambiguous and do not clearly establish period nor region, simply alluding to these by the use of descriptive terms using place names or rulers names.

I should note that I am unaware of any classification using the term 'Punjabi' for a hilt form, nor the letter T along with it. Since the Punjab is of course central to the Sikh Faith, I would consider that perhaps this might be a classification noted in Sikh resources with regards to tulwar hilts, however I do not have access to such material.

As this hilt's inscription in apparantly is in Devanagari, with date 1813 (V.S.) it would seem to correspond to Hindi in language. The mention of Lahore of course again suggests Punjab, which with the Hindi inscription sugggests probably a Rajput weapon. Tulwars were used by Rajputs, Mughals and Sikhs, but not common among Hindus, so that is my line of thinking.

If this were a Sikh weapon, it is my impression this script would be in Gurmukhi, and while Devanagari is used in writing Marathi, they did not typically use tulwars as far as I know, and favored the khanda/firangi.

I hope these notes might be of some help, but I think in these cases, the inscriptions are the most reliable identifiers.

All best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.