A QUESTION OF TIMELINES AND EVOLUTION OF FORM

VANDOO · 9th December 2011, 09:09 PM

A RECENT POST OF A MORO KRIS IN THE ETHINOGRAPHIC FORUM BROUGHT UP THIS QUESTION IT SHOWS HANDLES I MORE CLOSELY ASSOCIATE WITH MALAY OR INDONESIAN FORMS.
IS THERE ANY STUDY DONE ON THE CRONOLOGICAL EVEOLUTION OF THE VARIOUS FORMS OF KERIS HANDLES IN DIFFERENT AREAS.? IF SO WHICH FORMS ARE THE OLDEST. THE MOST COMMON FORM I HAVE SEEN IS THE FORM IN THIS PICTURE.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A CROSSOVER FORM OF THE JAWA DEMAM KERIS HANDLE FOUND ON SOME MORO KRIS. WAS THE EARLY MORO KRIS INFLUENCED BY KERIS HANDLE AND BLADE FORMS AND THE MORE USUAL MORO FORMS EVOLVED LATER? OR WERE THE EARLY KRIS MADE MORE LIKE THE MALAY AND INDONESIAN KERIS. I THINK THE MORO KRIS DEFINITELY EVOLVED FROM THE KERIS BUT IS IT POSSIBLE TO ESTABLISH A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THIS HAPPENED.?

A. G. Maisey · 9th December 2011, 09:41 PM

Barry, my comments here will refer only to Jawa. Jawa is the point of origin of the keris, and all development in other areas occurred after the spread of the keris from Jawa to these other areas. I have made no study worth mentioning of keris in areas other than Jawa and Bali, thus I am not qualified to comment on development of form in areas other than Jawa.

The very earliest form of the keris in Jawa occurred in the Early Classical Period, Central Jawa, approx. pre-1000 CE.

The hilt on these keris appears to have been a purely functional form designed for use with a downwards stabbing action. The form was derived from and similar to some Indian daggers.

The cultural center of Jawa moved to East Jawa around 1000CE, and in East Jawa the hilt underwent development that saw it assume the figural forms of hyangs. This change occurred over at least a 300 year period.

With the rise of Demak , and the collapse of Majapahit( nominally 1468), Islamic cultural mores began to exercise an effect upon the Hindu-Buddhist and indigenous cultures of Jawa. The change in cultural mores saw the disappearance of recognizable humanoid forms, and their replacement with symbolic forms. This change occurred over approx. a 300 year period.

In Jawa, by the beginning of the 19th century, the Javanese hilt forms with which we are now familiar, had replaced in most, if not all, of Jawa, the hyang form.

The Solonese hilt form of which you have provided a photograph is certainly very prevalent, but only because Solonese culture is the dominant cultural thread of Jawa, and has influenced other Javanese sub-cultures.

PenangsangII · 15th December 2011, 12:52 PM

IMHO, the timeline when the Moro Kalis appeared could be around the time of European intervention in Nusantara politics, most probably around the fall of Gowa (Makassar) to the Dutch and its ally, the Bone Bugis in 1669. Most of the Makassarese and their Bugis allies moved to Kalimantan (Samarinda), Peninsular, Sumatra, Nusa Tenggara, even as far as Jawa, esp Cirebon.

In the attempt to match the Dutch's arsenal such as firearms, the Makassarese and the Buginese developed a slashing weapon based from the revered dagger called keris. this is very prevalent in the Samarinda, Peninsular and Sumatra.

Their cousin, the Moros copied the design for the very same reason, though they might not understand the philosophy behind the keris perabut. As we can see today, the ricikan of the Moro keris has no real meaning as it was just an attempt to copy the original Buginese/Makassarese keris sundang in samarinda, sumatra and Peninsular.

it can be safely said that kalis of the moros could have been first surfaced in the late 17th C.

VANDOO · 15th December 2011, 07:58 PM

IT IS ESTIMATED ISLAM FRIST ARRIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES BETWEEN THE 12TH AND 14TH CENTURYS. FROM WHAT I HAVE FOUND THE FIRST RECORDED CONTACT AND INTRODUCTION OF ISLAM TO THE PHILIPPINES WAS IN 1380. A TRADER FROM ARABIA ONE KARIM UL MAKHUDUM WAS CREDITED WITH BEING THE FIRST TO REACH THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO AND JOLO. THE FIRST MOSQUE WAS ESTABLISHED ON SIMUNUL IN MINDANAO IN THE 14 TH. CENTURY.
THE END OF THE MAJAPAHIT CIVILIZATION AROUND 1468 AND CHANGES OVER THE NEXT 300 YEARS UNDER ISLAMIC INFLUENCE WAS NO DOUBT SIMULAR IN THE PHILIPPINES. THE TIMELINE AROUND 1700 FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PHILIPPINE KRIS SWORD AS WELL AS LARGER SLASHING WEAPONS ELSWHERE IN THE REGION AND THE REASONS FOR IT SEEM TO FIT. IF THE KRIS DEVELOPED FROM FORMS IN INDONESIA AND MALAYSIA AT THAT TIME THE STYLIZED FORMS WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN PRESENT AND IN GENERAL USE.
SO THIS WOULD SEEM TO AT LEAST GIVE US A GENERAL IDEA OF THE TIMELINE AND REASONS FOR THINGS DEVELOPING AS THEY DID AND WHERE THE INFLUENCES IN FORM AND DEVELOPMENT CAME FROM. THANKS

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2011, 10:45 PM

Going back a few years there was a very thoughtful article written by a forum member that associated development of the Moro style of keris with slave raids.

I've forgotten the details, but I do recall being very impressed with article. Perhaps somebody may be able to provide a link?

Rick · 15th December 2011, 11:12 PM

This is of interest possibly .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=iranun

9th December 2011, 09:09 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A QUESTION OF TIMELINES AND EVOLUTION OF FORM A RECENT POST OF A MORO KRIS IN THE ETHINOGRAPHIC FORUM BROUGHT UP THIS QUESTION IT SHOWS HANDLES I MORE CLOSELY ASSOCIATE WITH MALAY OR INDONESIAN FORMS. IS THERE ANY STUDY DONE ON THE CRONOLOGICAL EVEOLUTION OF THE VARIOUS FORMS OF KERIS HANDLES IN DIFFERENT AREAS.? IF SO WHICH FORMS ARE THE OLDEST. THE MOST COMMON FORM I HAVE SEEN IS THE FORM IN THIS PICTURE. THERE SEEMS TO BE A CROSSOVER FORM OF THE JAWA DEMAM KERIS HANDLE FOUND ON SOME MORO KRIS. WAS THE EARLY MORO KRIS INFLUENCED BY KERIS HANDLE AND BLADE FORMS AND THE MORE USUAL MORO FORMS EVOLVED LATER? OR WERE THE EARLY KRIS MADE MORE LIKE THE MALAY AND INDONESIAN KERIS. I THINK THE MORO KRIS DEFINITELY EVOLVED FROM THE KERIS BUT IS IT POSSIBLE TO ESTABLISH A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THIS HAPPENED.? Attached Images

9th December 2011, 09:41 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	Barry, my comments here will refer only to Jawa. Jawa is the point of origin of the keris, and all development in other areas occurred after the spread of the keris from Jawa to these other areas. I have made no study worth mentioning of keris in areas other than Jawa and Bali, thus I am not qualified to comment on development of form in areas other than Jawa. The very earliest form of the keris in Jawa occurred in the Early Classical Period, Central Jawa, approx. pre-1000 CE. The hilt on these keris appears to have been a purely functional form designed for use with a downwards stabbing action. The form was derived from and similar to some Indian daggers. The cultural center of Jawa moved to East Jawa around 1000CE, and in East Jawa the hilt underwent development that saw it assume the figural forms of hyangs. This change occurred over at least a 300 year period. With the rise of Demak , and the collapse of Majapahit( nominally 1468), Islamic cultural mores began to exercise an effect upon the Hindu-Buddhist and indigenous cultures of Jawa. The change in cultural mores saw the disappearance of recognizable humanoid forms, and their replacement with symbolic forms. This change occurred over approx. a 300 year period. In Jawa, by the beginning of the 19th century, the Javanese hilt forms with which we are now familiar, had replaced in most, if not all, of Jawa, the hyang form. The Solonese hilt form of which you have provided a photograph is certainly very prevalent, but only because Solonese culture is the dominant cultural thread of Jawa, and has influenced other Javanese sub-cultures.

15th December 2011, 12:52 PM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	IMHO, the timeline when the Moro Kalis appeared could be around the time of European intervention in Nusantara politics, most probably around the fall of Gowa (Makassar) to the Dutch and its ally, the Bone Bugis in 1669. Most of the Makassarese and their Bugis allies moved to Kalimantan (Samarinda), Peninsular, Sumatra, Nusa Tenggara, even as far as Jawa, esp Cirebon. In the attempt to match the Dutch's arsenal such as firearms, the Makassarese and the Buginese developed a slashing weapon based from the revered dagger called keris. this is very prevalent in the Samarinda, Peninsular and Sumatra. Their cousin, the Moros copied the design for the very same reason, though they might not understand the philosophy behind the keris perabut. As we can see today, the ricikan of the Moro keris has no real meaning as it was just an attempt to copy the original Buginese/Makassarese keris sundang in samarinda, sumatra and Peninsular. it can be safely said that kalis of the moros could have been first surfaced in the late 17th C.

15th December 2011, 07:58 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS ESTIMATED ISLAM FRIST ARRIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES BETWEEN THE 12TH AND 14TH CENTURYS. FROM WHAT I HAVE FOUND THE FIRST RECORDED CONTACT AND INTRODUCTION OF ISLAM TO THE PHILIPPINES WAS IN 1380. A TRADER FROM ARABIA ONE KARIM UL MAKHUDUM WAS CREDITED WITH BEING THE FIRST TO REACH THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO AND JOLO. THE FIRST MOSQUE WAS ESTABLISHED ON SIMUNUL IN MINDANAO IN THE 14 TH. CENTURY. THE END OF THE MAJAPAHIT CIVILIZATION AROUND 1468 AND CHANGES OVER THE NEXT 300 YEARS UNDER ISLAMIC INFLUENCE WAS NO DOUBT SIMULAR IN THE PHILIPPINES. THE TIMELINE AROUND 1700 FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PHILIPPINE KRIS SWORD AS WELL AS LARGER SLASHING WEAPONS ELSWHERE IN THE REGION AND THE REASONS FOR IT SEEM TO FIT. IF THE KRIS DEVELOPED FROM FORMS IN INDONESIA AND MALAYSIA AT THAT TIME THE STYLIZED FORMS WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN PRESENT AND IN GENERAL USE. SO THIS WOULD SEEM TO AT LEAST GIVE US A GENERAL IDEA OF THE TIMELINE AND REASONS FOR THINGS DEVELOPING AS THEY DID AND WHERE THE INFLUENCES IN FORM AND DEVELOPMENT CAME FROM. THANKS

15th December 2011, 10:45 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	Going back a few years there was a very thoughtful article written by a forum member that associated development of the Moro style of keris with slave raids. I've forgotten the details, but I do recall being very impressed with article. Perhaps somebody may be able to provide a link?

15th December 2011, 11:12 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	This is of interest possibly . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=iranun