Christian amulet?

erlikhan · 12th September 2007, 08:53 PM

hi. This is -said to be- from western black sea region of Turkey.
Moderators; yes this is an edged weapons forum but this item can certainly be considered as an edged weapon as well

Is there some kind of a common religious application using wild boar teeth like this ? Metal is nielloed silver. Any age or ethnicity information?

regards

erlikhan · 12th September 2007, 09:04 PM

.

Jim McDougall · 13th September 2007, 01:52 AM

I'm not sure that this interesting item would be considered a weapon, despite the fact that animal horns, teeth etc. are often employed in certain weapon forms.
The center piece seems like a shashka ring mount from a scabbard. The boars teeth are joined in the center piece to form a crescent. This would probably suggest the moon, and there does seem to be some association between the moon and the Virgin Mary in some Christian symbolism, but exact meaning seems somewhat elusive. There are symbols with her standing on a moon sickle upright, but the purpose of the dangling crucifix within an inverted crescent in this case seems puzzling.

As far as the boar itself, medieval Christian art with Germanic speaking peoples considered the wild boar a Christ symbol ( probably because of erroneous derivation of 'eber' the German name for wild boar, and the Hebrew
'ibri' the ancestor of the Hebrews. (ref: The Herder Symbol Dictionary" 1986, p.190).

I'd like to know if there might be certain provenance or information about where this was found.
Best regards,
Jim

josh stout · 13th September 2007, 02:36 AM

That is a good call with the crescent moon symbolism and Mary. I would not have thought of that, but it is indeed a common associacion. A common Christian millenialist symbol was a circle with a crescent moon along one side, a cross at the bottom and an interlocking AM that could easily be mistaken for a geometric design. The AM stood for Ave Maria, or more secretly, Ave Milleniarum.
Josh

rand · 13th September 2007, 03:07 AM

Hey Erlikhan,

Am fairly certain have seen similar boars tusk amulets mounted on Ottoman 17-18th C. horsetrappings, something about a talisman for a warrior.

The Christian cross could indiacte the possiblity of Armenian, or Georgian cavalry which the Ottomans used often. The Armenians in particular were known for high quality cavalry regiments.

The Persians also used the Armenian cavalry when they controled Armenia.

rand

erlikhan · 13th September 2007, 04:50 PM

thank you all for your interesting contributions . However wild boar,or any kind pig is taboo in Islam. They are accepted as the dirtiest animal,forbidden to eat its meat,to use any part of its body etc.. A Moslem soldier would hope good luck and victory from a boar tusk talisman?? Unbelievable. So "boar tusked amulet carrying Turkish sipahis" theory is inconvincing for me. Perhaps not only the cross, but the whole item itself might be accepted as a mounted Christian soldier amulets or accessory tradition once in Ottoman army. The crescent form of the item could tell something like a Turkish origin, but Jim says there is a moon-Virgin Mary association in Christian symbolism as well . The nielloed silver also can point some possible Caucassian Christian origins,right?

dennee · 13th September 2007, 05:22 PM

My understanding of the association of Mary with the crescent moon is that it is a bit of transference of the symbolism from "pagan" worship of Diana and Artemis as Christianity spread over, and to some extent accommodated remnant beliefs and practices of, the classical world.

rand · 13th September 2007, 06:19 PM

Hey Erlikhan,

Believe the Armenian, Georgian and Caucasian segments of the Ottoman empire to be a mainly a Christian area. Isn't the Armenia the first Christian country in the world and also isn't the first Christian church built there also?

rand

rand · 2nd October 2007, 10:37 PM

Found these references from Hundred and One Antiques sold section.

"TURKISH OTTOMAN HORSE ORNAMENT

Turkish Ottoman horse neck ornament, such unusual horse ornaments were popular among the Ottoman cavalry Sipahi during the period of the 17th and 18th century as a symbol of bravery. The ornaments were made of boar tusks and mounted in gold, silver or brass. This particular one is mounted in beautifully decorated silver. The photocopy is from the catalogue of Ottoman militaria taken from the Turks by allied forces in the battle of Vienna in 1683. The Pendent is 4 7/8 inches long and 3 ½ inches high. "

Also this photo of a different one.....

"TURKISH OTTOMAN HORSE TACK BEYKOZ GLASS BEADS
[Item M36]

SOLD--Antique Turkish Ottoman horse tack in the provincial style with a boar tusks ornament. Such unusual horse ornaments were popular among the Ottoman cavalry Sipahi during the period of the 17th - 19th century as a symbol of bravery. The ornaments were made of boar tusks and mounted in gold, silver or brass. This particular one is mounted in brass decorated with Beykoz glass beads on a leather string (the leather string and coins are probably a later replacement).The tusk has some cracks and a large chip. The entire length of the tack is 76cm (30 in); The Pendant is 9cm (3 ½ in) long and 7, 5cm (3 in) high "

Both are quotes from item description...

rand

12th September 2007, 08:53 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Christian amulet? hi. This is -said to be- from western black sea region of Turkey. Moderators; yes this is an edged weapons forum but this item can certainly be considered as an edged weapon as well Is there some kind of a common religious application using wild boar teeth like this ? Metal is nielloed silver. Any age or ethnicity information? regards Attached Images

12th September 2007, 09:04 PM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	. Attached Images

13th September 2007, 03:07 AM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Boars Tusk Hey Erlikhan, Am fairly certain have seen similar boars tusk amulets mounted on Ottoman 17-18th C. horsetrappings, something about a talisman for a warrior. The Christian cross could indiacte the possiblity of Armenian, or Georgian cavalry which the Ottomans used often. The Armenians in particular were known for high quality cavalry regiments. The Persians also used the Armenian cavalry when they controled Armenia. rand

13th September 2007, 06:19 PM	#8
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Armenian, Georgian and Caucasian Hey Erlikhan, Believe the Armenian, Georgian and Caucasian segments of the Ottoman empire to be a mainly a Christian area. Isn't the Armenia the first Christian country in the world and also isn't the first Christian church built there also? rand

2nd October 2007, 10:37 PM	#9
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Found these references from Hundred and One Antiques sold section. "TURKISH OTTOMAN HORSE ORNAMENT Turkish Ottoman horse neck ornament, such unusual horse ornaments were popular among the Ottoman cavalry Sipahi during the period of the 17th and 18th century as a symbol of bravery. The ornaments were made of boar tusks and mounted in gold, silver or brass. This particular one is mounted in beautifully decorated silver. The photocopy is from the catalogue of Ottoman militaria taken from the Turks by allied forces in the battle of Vienna in 1683. The Pendent is 4 7/8 inches long and 3 ½ inches high. " Also this photo of a different one..... "TURKISH OTTOMAN HORSE TACK BEYKOZ GLASS BEADS [Item M36] SOLD--Antique Turkish Ottoman horse tack in the provincial style with a boar tusks ornament. Such unusual horse ornaments were popular among the Ottoman cavalry Sipahi during the period of the 17th - 19th century as a symbol of bravery. The ornaments were made of boar tusks and mounted in gold, silver or brass. This particular one is mounted in brass decorated with Beykoz glass beads on a leather string (the leather string and coins are probably a later replacement).The tusk has some cracks and a large chip. The entire length of the tack is 76cm (30 in); The Pendant is 9cm (3 ½ in) long and 7, 5cm (3 in) high " Both are quotes from item description... rand Attached Images

13th September 2007, 01:52 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	I'm not sure that this interesting item would be considered a weapon, despite the fact that animal horns, teeth etc. are often employed in certain weapon forms. The center piece seems like a shashka ring mount from a scabbard. The boars teeth are joined in the center piece to form a crescent. This would probably suggest the moon, and there does seem to be some association between the moon and the Virgin Mary in some Christian symbolism, but exact meaning seems somewhat elusive. There are symbols with her standing on a moon sickle upright, but the purpose of the dangling crucifix within an inverted crescent in this case seems puzzling. As far as the boar itself, medieval Christian art with Germanic speaking peoples considered the wild boar a Christ symbol ( probably because of erroneous derivation of 'eber' the German name for wild boar, and the Hebrew 'ibri' the ancestor of the Hebrews. (ref: The Herder Symbol Dictionary" 1986, p.190). I'd like to know if there might be certain provenance or information about where this was found. Best regards, Jim

13th September 2007, 02:36 AM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That is a good call with the crescent moon symbolism and Mary. I would not have thought of that, but it is indeed a common associacion. A common Christian millenialist symbol was a circle with a crescent moon along one side, a cross at the bottom and an interlocking AM that could easily be mistaken for a geometric design. The AM stood for Ave Maria, or more secretly, Ave Milleniarum. Josh

13th September 2007, 04:50 PM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	thank you all for your interesting contributions . However wild boar,or any kind pig is taboo in Islam. They are accepted as the dirtiest animal,forbidden to eat its meat,to use any part of its body etc.. A Moslem soldier would hope good luck and victory from a boar tusk talisman?? Unbelievable. So "boar tusked amulet carrying Turkish sipahis" theory is inconvincing for me. Perhaps not only the cross, but the whole item itself might be accepted as a mounted Christian soldier amulets or accessory tradition once in Ottoman army. The crescent form of the item could tell something like a Turkish origin, but Jim says there is a moon-Virgin Mary association in Christian symbolism as well . The nielloed silver also can point some possible Caucassian Christian origins,right?

13th September 2007, 05:22 PM	#7
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	My understanding of the association of Mary with the crescent moon is that it is a bit of transference of the symbolism from "pagan" worship of Diana and Artemis as Christianity spread over, and to some extent accommodated remnant beliefs and practices of, the classical world.