New to the forum, Hello, Pictures of swords WARNING LARGE PICS

scotchleaf · 23rd September 2010, 02:58 AM

Sorry for the size of some of these. Just wanted to show off the older items in my collection

Atlantia · 24th September 2010, 09:23 PM

Welcome to the forums mate

Nice swords, would have commented earlier but its taken this long for the pictures to download

Only kidding.

Best
Gene

Nathaniel · 24th September 2010, 10:52 PM

Yes, welcome to the forum & thanks for the pics. I'm sure the guys who know more about the nihonto and mandau will appreciate them even more and chime in, but any info you would intro about these pieces Scotleaf?

Henk · 24th September 2010, 11:12 PM

Welcome to the forum.

About the wakizashi I cann't tell anything. I leave it to the other forummembers more knowledgeable on that field.

The mandau is from New Guinea. The most examples are made for those who travel, however, yours is different especially the paint. Not so bright and shiny. Looks like this is a good one and original.

We had some threads about the keris in this kind of dress. For example this one:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=guinea

Rick · 24th September 2010, 11:55 PM

Hi Henk,

Do you have any photos of the Natives wearing or using one of these ?

I've got a little doubt about this Mandau .

asomotif · 25th September 2010, 01:58 AM

Welcome to the forum,

thanks for bringing up an old discussion.
This type of mandau imho (in my humble opinion) is made for tourists.
As Rick rightfully asks, dow e have pictures of natives wearing them ?
I heard that they are worn in the 70/80's series Sandokan. So much for provenance.

Use the search function on this website an check out some mandau threads.
You wil see the difference between this one and the real deal.

I like the fittings on the wakizashi, a pity that someone sanded the blade.
I no nothing about japanese stuff, but sanding the blade seems fatal for the value to me. There are specialist forums on nihonto / japanese swords.

Best regards,
Willem

VANDOO · 25th September 2010, 02:27 AM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I WILL LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE JAPANESE SWORD TO THOSE MORE KNOWLEGABLE AND THE MANDAU HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED. I AM IMPRESSED BY THE CARVING ON THE SMALL TABLE TOP VERY NICE GRAPES AND VINES, WHERE IS IT FROM?

scotchleaf · 25th September 2010, 03:25 AM

Yes, the wakizashi must be polished - I fear the cost would be more than it is worth. A dealer in such swords at the 2007 Blade Show said it was 17th century. My aunt got it in the 40's in Japan from her "houseboy." All I can say is that, happily, I wasn't the one to damage it.

Does anyone know if the mandau has any steel or is it Iron?

The table, I think, is German.

VANDOO · 25th September 2010, 09:08 PM

IF THE CLOSUP OF THE MANDAU IS OF THE BLADE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE A PEACE OF MONO STEEL THAT HAD BEEN SOAKED IN ACID TO APPEAR OLD. A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE BLADE WOULD REVEAL MORE. THE DAYAK AND OTHERS MAKE GOOD BLADES FOR THOSE THEY ACTUALLY USE . FOR TOURIST SOUVINEERS THEY OFTEN USE ANY OLD PIECE OF METAL AND SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN QUALIFY AS A USABLE BLADE OR HAVE A PROPER EDGE. I HAVE SEEN VERY WELL MADE BLADES AS WELL AS PIECES OF SCRAP METAL SUBJECTED TO THIS DESTRUCTIVE ACID BATH AND HEARD THE STORIES OF HOW OLD IT IS OR THAT IT WAS USED IN CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS OR THAT THE SHAMAN USED THE RESULTING BLACK RUST FOR MEDICINE.

I DON'T SEE WHY THEY BOTHER AS IT DETRACTS MORE FROM THE OBJECT THAN IT ADDS AND MAKES IT MUCH LESS ATTRACTIVE.

Henk · 26th September 2010, 07:57 AM

Rick,

No i don't have pictures of natives wearing these weapons.

The keris from New Guinea are mostly, just like the mandau and spears, tourist stuff. They have that shiny paint on the plain wood.
But it is said that the real keris from New Guinea have the same look as the tourist stuff but the paint is made from organic material with the woven "pendok" that are on these keris are the old and original ones. Sometimes such a keris pops up in an auction house here in Holland. I own one with museum numbers on it. Some very expierenced collectors told me this is the real thing, just like their own example.
Looking at the paint of this mandau it has the same look of paint made from organic material.
It is known that the papua tribes used mandau's and machetes. The blades were aquired by forging by their own blacksmiths and by trading. the weapons were decorated with natural (organic) paint in traditional motifs.

Please, don't ask me for books and titles, because i cann't remember it.

And of course, I realize that there is unfortunately a lot of recent made tourist stuff.

scotchleaf · 26th September 2010, 03:12 PM

I know these were acquired by the 1970's (when I remember seeing them in my Grandfather's home) but probably in the 50s or 60's

Years ago I put some candle wax on the blade in a misguided attempt to avoid rust.

So, by reading above, I take it that there is a disagreement between posters as to the status of this Mandu - whether it is a tourist item or actually intended for use.

In support of the "tourist item" idea, there does not appear to be much or any wear on the handle like you would think of a well-used sword - but how often did they practice with these?

Rick · 26th September 2010, 03:49 PM

No problems with citation Henk .

I take your word on this matter .

I would also like to view the complete blade .

Henk · 26th September 2010, 04:13 PM

Thanks Rick, but i have to admit that i always have my doubts by this kind of mandau's. But this one has the right paint, to put in that way. I would also like to see the entire blade. But i know that papua's used mandau blades. But those guys didn't take care for their equipment like the iban tribes did. The blades just like the most kerisblades were very rusty and pitted.

Bill M · 26th September 2010, 09:34 PM

We have three of these, similar, but different --- Balinese keris, Javanese keris and a mandau. Anne and I were at an auction in Boston (Skinners) a few years ago and they came up. Anne liked them and wanted to display them in her "kitchen gallery." The price was low and I indulged her.

An Indonesian friend, Reno of Golden Keris (eBay name) came to visit our home in Atlanta. He saw them and gave his opinion that they were legitimate, not New Guinea -- but "personalized" by a Batak.

They are still hanging on Anne's kitchen wall. One does have a museum number and some very strange additions. The paint is dull/flat. She likes them and they are dramatic.

23rd September 2010, 02:58 AM	#1
scotchleaf Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 21	New to the forum, Hello, Pictures of swords WARNING LARGE PICS Sorry for the size of some of these. Just wanted to show off the older items in my collection

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24th September 2010, 09:23 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Welcome to the forums mate Nice swords, would have commented earlier but its taken this long for the pictures to download Only kidding. Best Gene

24th September 2010, 10:52 PM	#3
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Yes, welcome to the forum & thanks for the pics. I'm sure the guys who know more about the nihonto and mandau will appreciate them even more and chime in, but any info you would intro about these pieces Scotleaf?

24th September 2010, 11:12 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Welcome to the forum. About the wakizashi I cann't tell anything. I leave it to the other forummembers more knowledgeable on that field. The mandau is from New Guinea. The most examples are made for those who travel, however, yours is different especially the paint. Not so bright and shiny. Looks like this is a good one and original. We had some threads about the keris in this kind of dress. For example this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=guinea

24th September 2010, 11:55 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Hi Henk, Do you have any photos of the Natives wearing or using one of these ? I've got a little doubt about this Mandau .

25th September 2010, 01:58 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Welcome to the forum, thanks for bringing up an old discussion. This type of mandau imho (in my humble opinion) is made for tourists. As Rick rightfully asks, dow e have pictures of natives wearing them ? I heard that they are worn in the 70/80's series Sandokan. So much for provenance. Use the search function on this website an check out some mandau threads. You wil see the difference between this one and the real deal. I like the fittings on the wakizashi, a pity that someone sanded the blade. I no nothing about japanese stuff, but sanding the blade seems fatal for the value to me. There are specialist forums on nihonto / japanese swords. Best regards, Willem

25th September 2010, 02:27 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELCOME TO THE FORUM I WILL LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE JAPANESE SWORD TO THOSE MORE KNOWLEGABLE AND THE MANDAU HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED. I AM IMPRESSED BY THE CARVING ON THE SMALL TABLE TOP VERY NICE GRAPES AND VINES, WHERE IS IT FROM?

25th September 2010, 03:25 AM	#8
scotchleaf Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 21	Yes, the wakizashi must be polished - I fear the cost would be more than it is worth. A dealer in such swords at the 2007 Blade Show said it was 17th century. My aunt got it in the 40's in Japan from her "houseboy." All I can say is that, happily, I wasn't the one to damage it. Does anyone know if the mandau has any steel or is it Iron? The table, I think, is German.

25th September 2010, 09:08 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF THE CLOSUP OF THE MANDAU IS OF THE BLADE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE A PEACE OF MONO STEEL THAT HAD BEEN SOAKED IN ACID TO APPEAR OLD. A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE BLADE WOULD REVEAL MORE. THE DAYAK AND OTHERS MAKE GOOD BLADES FOR THOSE THEY ACTUALLY USE . FOR TOURIST SOUVINEERS THEY OFTEN USE ANY OLD PIECE OF METAL AND SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN QUALIFY AS A USABLE BLADE OR HAVE A PROPER EDGE. I HAVE SEEN VERY WELL MADE BLADES AS WELL AS PIECES OF SCRAP METAL SUBJECTED TO THIS DESTRUCTIVE ACID BATH AND HEARD THE STORIES OF HOW OLD IT IS OR THAT IT WAS USED IN CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS OR THAT THE SHAMAN USED THE RESULTING BLACK RUST FOR MEDICINE. I DON'T SEE WHY THEY BOTHER AS IT DETRACTS MORE FROM THE OBJECT THAN IT ADDS AND MAKES IT MUCH LESS ATTRACTIVE.

26th September 2010, 07:57 AM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Rick, No i don't have pictures of natives wearing these weapons. The keris from New Guinea are mostly, just like the mandau and spears, tourist stuff. They have that shiny paint on the plain wood. But it is said that the real keris from New Guinea have the same look as the tourist stuff but the paint is made from organic material with the woven "pendok" that are on these keris are the old and original ones. Sometimes such a keris pops up in an auction house here in Holland. I own one with museum numbers on it. Some very expierenced collectors told me this is the real thing, just like their own example. Looking at the paint of this mandau it has the same look of paint made from organic material. It is known that the papua tribes used mandau's and machetes. The blades were aquired by forging by their own blacksmiths and by trading. the weapons were decorated with natural (organic) paint in traditional motifs. Please, don't ask me for books and titles, because i cann't remember it. And of course, I realize that there is unfortunately a lot of recent made tourist stuff.

26th September 2010, 03:12 PM	#11
scotchleaf Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 21	I know these were acquired by the 1970's (when I remember seeing them in my Grandfather's home) but probably in the 50s or 60's Years ago I put some candle wax on the blade in a misguided attempt to avoid rust. So, by reading above, I take it that there is a disagreement between posters as to the status of this Mandu - whether it is a tourist item or actually intended for use. In support of the "tourist item" idea, there does not appear to be much or any wear on the handle like you would think of a well-used sword - but how often did they practice with these?

26th September 2010, 03:49 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	No problems with citation Henk . I take your word on this matter . I would also like to view the complete blade .

26th September 2010, 04:13 PM	#13
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Thanks Rick, but i have to admit that i always have my doubts by this kind of mandau's. But this one has the right paint, to put in that way. I would also like to see the entire blade. But i know that papua's used mandau blades. But those guys didn't take care for their equipment like the iban tribes did. The blades just like the most kerisblades were very rusty and pitted.

26th September 2010, 09:34 PM	#14
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	We have three of these, similar, but different --- Balinese keris, Javanese keris and a mandau. Anne and I were at an auction in Boston (Skinners) a few years ago and they came up. Anne liked them and wanted to display them in her "kitchen gallery." The price was low and I indulged her. An Indonesian friend, Reno of Golden Keris (eBay name) came to visit our home in Atlanta. He saw them and gave his opinion that they were legitimate, not New Guinea -- but "personalized" by a Batak. They are still hanging on Anne's kitchen wall. One does have a museum number and some very strange additions. The paint is dull/flat. She likes them and they are dramatic.