"Balinese Keris" book

Battara · 1st May 2020, 02:23 AM

I'm curious - what makes this better than other Bali books?

Anthony G. · 1st May 2020, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I'm curious - what makes this better than other Bali books?

Good for people like me who only knows English.......

A. G. Maisey · 1st May 2020, 09:00 AM

I think I would prefer to reserve comment on this subject.

David · 1st May 2020, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I think I would prefer to reserve comment on this subject.

I certainly respect your decision not to comment, but can i ask if you have actually read the book in question, or if not, is your decision not to read it based upon the previous writings of Garrett Kam?

A. G. Maisey · 1st May 2020, 09:45 PM

Sorry David, I really should not comment, I am in a position where it would be unfair to do so.

I'm not making any comment against the book, I'm not making any comment in favour of it, I have simply said that I will make no comment, but on the other hand I have suggested that people who are interested in the subject matter, ie, Balinese keris, should buy not only Garrett Kam's book, but the Neka books, and actually every other book that they can get their hands on.

In a roundabout way my suggestion is that people should build knowledge and then form their own opinion of the value of anything that they might happen to read.

Jean · 2nd May 2020, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In a roundabout way my suggestion is that people should build knowledge and then form their own opinion of the value of anything that they might happen to read.

I agree.
Regarding this book, my appreciation is as follows:
. The major interest of this book is that it describes the place and use of the kris into the Balinese culture, which is quite unique.
. The author is apparently not a kris expert himself but he was assisted by an experienced Balinese kris collector so that the kris information given is adequate. Having read the master books from Neka and Djelenga (in Bahasa Indonesia and somewhat confusing), I did not learn much new knowledge in this book, but appreciated some aspects such as the Balinese kris terminology and the fact that the daphur types were not actually used in Bali.
. So overall I found that this book is a very good and unparalleled introduction to the Balinese kris in the Balinese cultural context.
Regards

Marcokeris · 2nd May 2020, 12:17 PM

this new book should be released in Bali this summer (covid permitting)

David · 3rd May 2020, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I'm not making any comment against the book, I'm not making any comment in favour of it, I have simply said that I will make no comment, but on the other hand I have suggested that people who are interested in the subject matter, ie, Balinese keris, should buy not only Garrett Kam's book, but the Neka books, and actually every other book that they can get their hands on.

In a roundabout way my suggestion is that people should build knowledge and then form their own opinion of the value of anything that they might happen to read.

While i do not disagree with the general concept here Alan, i do need to point out that some of us have only so much money to put into our keris libraries. So for me personally, the idea of purchasing "every other book that they can get their hands on" is not really a workable model, especially given that many books on keris come with a large price tag given they can only really be sold in a rather limited market and end up being little more than repetition of old info with a few new snazzy photos attached. That is why i believe it is good to have a fair and open-minded discussion with knowledgable people who have indeed read the book in order to determine if that book is worth adding to our libraries or something that will only take up shelve space while adding little if anything to our present knowledge base.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd May 2020, 10:47 PM

OK David, you want more than I intended to give?

If a journalist is given information long before it becomes publicly available, and his informant is somebody who is in a privileged position in respect of the information itself and the people it involves, and his informant has told him that the information is off the record, tell me, what does that journalist do?

Most especially what does he do if he wants to obtain information in future from his informant? Sometimes the information might never become publicly available, sometimes it might become available long after it is of any interest to anybody, but the rule is the same:- if one is given privileged information one keeps one's mouth shut.

Sometimes we are in possession of knowledge that it unwise to give to others, and would undermine our integrity if we did . In respect of the book under discussion, I do not have a copy of this book, but I have seen and read the material that is contained in this book.

As to my remark about purchasing "every other book that they can get their hands on", that remark contains a qualification that very adequately takes care of the money problem that we all face at some level or another. If one is a little short of funds then clearly one is unable to get their hands on a lot of things.

Going back a long time, the only way I could get my hands on Raffles' "History of Java" was to do a 50 kilometer round trip to the State Library in Sydney, and then spend the afternoon reading and making notes. I needed a copy of that book more than a mongrel dog needs a hiding, but only originals were available from antique booksellers and they were simply beyond my means.

I do understand what you have said David, and in fact the core of my post #10 is in the last line of that post.

In my experience the way in which to build knowledge is first & foremost to identify exactly what it is that one wishes to know or to learn, and that identification of "knowledge needed" then becomes one's guide to where and how to seek that knowledge. In respect of knowledge concerning keris, and in particular Balinese keris, very seldom does the material presented in print that focuses upon keris assist the understanding of a true student of the keris.

But on the other hand, if one is not so much a student of the keris, but rather a collector of the keris, then the nature of the knowledge needed is different, and knowledge at this "collector level" can be added to by virtually everything in print.

I will leave it to other people to comment on Mr. Kam's book, since I do not actually own a copy of the publication, I will not.

Jean · 4th May 2020, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

So for me personally, the idea of purchasing "every other book that they can get their hands on" is not really a workable model, especially given that many books on keris come with a large price tag given they can only really be sold in a rather limited market and end up being little more than repetition of old info with a few new snazzy photos attached.

I agree with you David and this applies especially to the Balinese/ Lombok krisses for which the true experts seem to have vanished, or are not in position to write something relevant for the collectors.
Since the master kris book "Keris Bali bersejarah" was published by Pak Neka, the book shown by Marco is the third one recently written about Balinese kris, one of them by Pak Neka himself and the other by his co-author, and this last one directed by Javanese authors....

Jean · 1st May 2020, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I'm curious - what makes this better than other Bali books?

First and as Anthony said, the book is written in English. The author studied Asian Art at the Hawai University, then he was trained as a professional Javanese court dancer and performed across the world. He moved to Bali and became curator of a major art Museum in Ubud.... He converted to Balinese Hinduism and immersed himself in Balinese culture for many years and in the study of the Balinese kris with the help of local experts. I would consider his book as the Balinese equivalent of the book "The World of the Javanese Kris" written by G. and B. Solyom, although some members may not agree as I understand....
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 1st May 2020, 01:44 PM

Apart from the keris book, Garrett Kam has also published these pieces of writing:-

https://independent.academia.edu/GarrettKam

I would suggest that everybody should buy this book, together with Pak Neka's publications and form their own opinions.

Perhaps the value of any piece of writing is found in the knowledge of the reader and that which he wishes to learn from what he reads.

1st May 2020, 09:45 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Sorry David, I really should not comment, I am in a position where it would be unfair to do so. I'm not making any comment against the book, I'm not making any comment in favour of it, I have simply said that I will make no comment, but on the other hand I have suggested that people who are interested in the subject matter, ie, Balinese keris, should buy not only Garrett Kam's book, but the Neka books, and actually every other book that they can get their hands on. In a roundabout way my suggestion is that people should build knowledge and then form their own opinion of the value of anything that they might happen to read. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 1st May 2020 at 10:15 PM.

2nd May 2020, 12:17 PM	#7
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	this new book should be released in Bali this summer (covid permitting) Attached Images

1st May 2020, 02:23 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I'm curious - what makes this better than other Bali books?

1st May 2020, 09:00 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	I think I would prefer to reserve comment on this subject.

3rd May 2020, 10:47 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	OK David, you want more than I intended to give? If a journalist is given information long before it becomes publicly available, and his informant is somebody who is in a privileged position in respect of the information itself and the people it involves, and his informant has told him that the information is off the record, tell me, what does that journalist do? Most especially what does he do if he wants to obtain information in future from his informant? Sometimes the information might never become publicly available, sometimes it might become available long after it is of any interest to anybody, but the rule is the same:- if one is given privileged information one keeps one's mouth shut. Sometimes we are in possession of knowledge that it unwise to give to others, and would undermine our integrity if we did . In respect of the book under discussion, I do not have a copy of this book, but I have seen and read the material that is contained in this book. As to my remark about purchasing "every other book that they can get their hands on", that remark contains a qualification that very adequately takes care of the money problem that we all face at some level or another. If one is a little short of funds then clearly one is unable to get their hands on a lot of things. Going back a long time, the only way I could get my hands on Raffles' "History of Java" was to do a 50 kilometer round trip to the State Library in Sydney, and then spend the afternoon reading and making notes. I needed a copy of that book more than a mongrel dog needs a hiding, but only originals were available from antique booksellers and they were simply beyond my means. I do understand what you have said David, and in fact the core of my post #10 is in the last line of that post. In my experience the way in which to build knowledge is first & foremost to identify exactly what it is that one wishes to know or to learn, and that identification of "knowledge needed" then becomes one's guide to where and how to seek that knowledge. In respect of knowledge concerning keris, and in particular Balinese keris, very seldom does the material presented in print that focuses upon keris assist the understanding of a true student of the keris. But on the other hand, if one is not so much a student of the keris, but rather a collector of the keris, then the nature of the knowledge needed is different, and knowledge at this "collector level" can be added to by virtually everything in print. I will leave it to other people to comment on Mr. Kam's book, since I do not actually own a copy of the publication, I will not.

1st May 2020, 01:44 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Apart from the keris book, Garrett Kam has also published these pieces of writing:- https://independent.academia.edu/GarrettKam I would suggest that everybody should buy this book, together with Pak Neka's publications and form their own opinions. Perhaps the value of any piece of writing is found in the knowledge of the reader and that which he wishes to learn from what he reads.