Tatarian sword translation and comments pls!

HUSAR · 13th March 2010, 08:20 PM

interesting sword with interesting blade ... maybe somebody can help with translation.... pls let me know your opinion on this piece!

Atlantia · 13th March 2010, 08:47 PM

Can't help with translation.
Opinion is..... BEAUTIFUL!

HUSAR · 13th March 2010, 08:56 PM

thanks!
I like it as well

the gold decoration on the blade is done in two ways, inlay and overlay, fittings silver, rayskin is probably later replacement, blade extremely light, laminated or kind of sham ...

Dom · 14th March 2010, 12:02 AM

priori, it seems that this is not written in Arabic
might be in old Turkish or Farsi
nevertheless
- 1st "cartouche" (up) a word unknown in Arabic, follow by
"ASLI AL" either "original"

- 2nd "cartouche" "TALY KEL AMEL" the 2 last words ... no meaning in Arabic
"AMEL" either "Made"

- 3rd "cartouche" interjection "ALI YA"
"YA ALI" either "Hi Ali"

pretty sure that "Zefir" could be the right person to translate those 3 cartouches

à +

Dom

Battara · 14th March 2010, 01:49 AM

What an impressive piece!

HUSAR · 14th March 2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

priori, it seems that this is not written in Arabic
might be in old Turkish or Farsi
nevertheless
- 1st "cartouche" (up) a word unknown in Arabic, follow by
"ASLI AL" either "original"

- 2nd "cartouche" "TALY KEL AMEL" the 2 last words ... no meaning in Arabic
"AMEL" either "Made"

- 3rd "cartouche" interjection "ALI YA"
"YA ALI" either "Hi Ali"

pretty sure that "Zefir" could be the right person to translate those 3 cartouches

à +

Dom

thank you Dom for help I hope Zefir will be able to translate it!
best
Husar

Valjhun · 14th March 2010, 05:03 PM

Astonishing find! Top of the top and more than rare it is unique! Congrats!

Emanuel · 14th March 2010, 05:13 PM

Superb! hard to think of a more graceful sword.

Jeff D · 14th March 2010, 06:32 PM

The 2nd Cartouche reads " Amal Kalbeali". "Made by Kalbeali". The supposed son of Assadollah.

Jeff

HUSAR · 14th March 2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

The 2nd Cartouche reads " Amal Kalbeali". "Made by Kalbeali". The supposed son of Assadollah.

Jeff

interesting while the gold overlays do not remind me persian work? what do you think?

Zifir · 15th March 2010, 06:08 PM

Although Dom in his kindness pointed me as the "right" person, I don't have much to add to his concrete translation. Some of these Caucasian-Tartar words and names are totally foreign to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

priori, it seems that this is not written in Arabic
might be in old Turkish or Farsi
nevertheless
- 1st "cartouche" (up) a word unknown in Arabic, follow by
"ASLI AL" either "original"

- 2nd "cartouche" "TALY KEL AMEL" the 2 last words ... no meaning in Arabic
"AMEL" either "Made"

- 3rd "cartouche" interjection "ALI YA"
"YA ALI" either "Hi Ali"

pretty sure that "Zefir" could be the right person to translate those 3 cartouches

à +

Dom

HUSAR · 15th March 2010, 06:20 PM

thank you ALL for comments , the sword is really nice and I think the best balanced among the swords I have had in my hands... Pity that it is hard translate the cartoushe, well I did not expect something outstanding but... it is always nice to discover those kinds of mysteries

Gavin Nugent · 15th March 2010, 09:25 PM

Congrats HUSAR,

Sorry I can not be of any help with translations though it seems Jeff and Zifir have drawn the same parallels with their efforts.

As I am sure you and others who have posted know that you have in your posession a truely remarkable sword being what many do consider one of the rarest swords in the world.
Peronally, I would love to see more of it in larger & more detailed images here or privately. This fine example is obviously presentation/wealth/high standing grade and all are not likely to see anything similar for a very very long time if at all as I think it is most likely unique....I can only image what the scabbard looked like.
I'd also love to know more on the dimensions,(blade, hilt, guard, yelman, spine widths and taper), weight and points of balance.
Many thanks for bringing this to the forum to share with us all and I am sure there will be many more ooooos and arrrrrrs to come from other viewers :-)

very best regards

Gavin

TVV · 15th March 2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUSAR

interesting while the gold overlays do not remind me persian work? what do you think?

First of all,

Let me join the rest of the choire in expressing my gratitude for you sharing this sword with us. We do not get to see these every year.

As for the blade, perhaps it was originally Persian, and later decorated by those famour Armenian craftsmen from Lvov that got to enhance and assemble many of the imports to Poland from the East?

Best regards,
Teodor

Jeff D · 15th March 2010, 11:20 PM

Sorry about the slow reply. Work... you know.

I think the first cartouche reads "La fata ella Ali" or "There is no brave man but Ali"
The last cartouche I think is "Ya Ali Madad" or "Oh Ali with your help".

With out better pictures I agree with Teodor observations.

All the Best
Jeff

HUSAR · 16th March 2010, 08:53 AM

next week I will try to make some more pictures and post on the forum, now im travelling

work work ....

13th March 2010, 08:20 PM	#1
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	Tatarian sword translation and comments pls! interesting sword with interesting blade ... maybe somebody can help with translation.... pls let me know your opinion on this piece! Attached Images

15th March 2010, 09:25 PM	#13
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Congratulations. Congrats HUSAR, Sorry I can not be of any help with translations though it seems Jeff and Zifir have drawn the same parallels with their efforts. As I am sure you and others who have posted know that you have in your posession a truely remarkable sword being what many do consider one of the rarest swords in the world. Peronally, I would love to see more of it in larger & more detailed images here or privately. This fine example is obviously presentation/wealth/high standing grade and all are not likely to see anything similar for a very very long time if at all as I think it is most likely unique....I can only image what the scabbard looked like. I'd also love to know more on the dimensions,(blade, hilt, guard, yelman, spine widths and taper), weight and points of balance. Many thanks for bringing this to the forum to share with us all and I am sure there will be many more ooooos and arrrrrrs to come from other viewers :-) very best regards Gavin

13th March 2010, 08:47 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Can't help with translation. Opinion is..... BEAUTIFUL!

13th March 2010, 08:56 PM	#3
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	thanks! I like it as well the gold decoration on the blade is done in two ways, inlay and overlay, fittings silver, rayskin is probably later replacement, blade extremely light, laminated or kind of sham ...

14th March 2010, 12:02 AM	#4
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	priori, it seems that this is not written in Arabic might be in old Turkish or Farsi nevertheless - 1st "cartouche" (up) a word unknown in Arabic, follow by "ASLI AL" either "original" - 2nd "cartouche" "TALY KEL AMEL" the 2 last words ... no meaning in Arabic "AMEL" either "Made" - 3rd "cartouche" interjection "ALI YA" "YA ALI" either "Hi Ali" pretty sure that "Zefir" could be the right person to translate those 3 cartouches à + Dom

14th March 2010, 01:49 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	What an impressive piece!

14th March 2010, 05:03 PM	#7
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Astonishing find! Top of the top and more than rare it is unique! Congrats!

14th March 2010, 05:13 PM	#8
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Superb! hard to think of a more graceful sword.

14th March 2010, 06:32 PM	#9
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	The 2nd Cartouche reads " Amal Kalbeali". "Made by Kalbeali". The supposed son of Assadollah. Jeff

15th March 2010, 06:20 PM	#12
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	thank you ALL for comments , the sword is really nice and I think the best balanced among the swords I have had in my hands... Pity that it is hard translate the cartoushe, well I did not expect something outstanding but... it is always nice to discover those kinds of mysteries

15th March 2010, 11:20 PM	#15
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Sorry about the slow reply. Work... you know. I think the first cartouche reads "La fata ella Ali" or "There is no brave man but Ali" The last cartouche I think is "Ya Ali Madad" or "Oh Ali with your help". With out better pictures I agree with Teodor observations. All the Best Jeff

16th March 2010, 08:53 AM	#16
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	next week I will try to make some more pictures and post on the forum, now im travelling work work ....