Curious spear-head

Jake · 26th April 2009, 05:13 PM

Gentlemen!Having but very recently joined in the forum,i'll go out on a limb here in the hopes that this object may in any way interest anyone.I apologize beforehand if the object lacks much of an interest in the context of your researches and collecting.Also for it's vague,at best,relationship to the "european"part of the forum discussion.
But,here goes...It was found buried in the sand on the beach on Bering strait,south of Nome,Alaska.Then re-handled,and used a few times here,further inland,for taking bear (out of the den,mostly).That was 50 years or so previous.
The spear is forgewelded out of fairly slaggy steel,the visible layer structure seems to be about .5mm thick.The socket is forgewelded very competently,and decorated with the alternating hot-inlay of copper and brass(the inlaying grooves are not dove-tailed).It's possible that the entire socket was coppered,much like many European,German,especially,tools.Since i've taken these(poor quality)photos,the new owner has dilligently "cleaned" it,obliterating the layering exposed by corrosion,and the surface remnants of the non-ferrous metals.The lengh O/A is about a foot.
My feeble inquiry as to it's possible origin i should,probably,keep to myself,so as not to muddle any possible discussion(I've no qualifications for an academic research into this,or much else,at that

But,as a native Russian speaker,did briefly cast my gaze in that direction(the Russian Far East),albeit without much that is conclusive in any way).
Respectfully,Jake.

Jake · 26th April 2009, 05:17 PM

Here are the photos themselves,and thanks,Jake.

Jim McDougall · 26th April 2009, 07:23 PM

Hi Jake,
First of all, welcome to the Forum!!! Its great to have someone here from our far northern regions, and I'm glad you have joined us here. Our scope of discussion is intended to feature virtually all forms of arms and armour, and including items which often seem to fall in the gray areas. I believe our basic philosophy is one never knows where clues might be found.
Also, one does not need academic qualification to participate here, we are all here to learn together, so welcome aboard!!

It is very good news to have someone who speaks Russian also, as we often have markings, and references where we need help.

I would say this appears to be a socketed lance head of 19th century, but pending further research, cannot qualify that in more detail. Naturally, the long reach of trade routes extended heavily into your regions from far to the west, and European metalwork items were in great demand.

The engraving in what appears to be crescents is very interesting.
Please do share your thoughts, it tends to enhance discussion rather than inhibit it.

All best regards,
Jim

fearn · 26th April 2009, 07:40 PM

Hi Jake,

Welcome!

I agree with Jim on the age, and I'd add that we can't rule out Chinese manufacture either. It is, unfortunately, a fairly generic shape, and they're selling them even now for the martial arts community.

The interesting thing to me are the decorations. I'll admit I haven't seen them before, but if they are original to the piece, they're probably our best clue for figuring out who made it.

Best,

F

Matchlock · 26th April 2009, 08:31 PM

Hi Jake,

I cannot add anything to your spear head but consent with what Jim and Fearn stated - and Welcome from my part as well, of course!

Best,
Michael

Jake · 26th April 2009, 08:49 PM

Thank you,Sir,for the warm welcome,as well as a chance to share here.
I'll have to preface anything that i may say by bringing up the fact that the entire subject of "Fe in the Arctic and the Sub-Arctic"is terra incognita,or very nearly so,as far as the academic research goes.But if that wasn't enough,these will be the thoughts of an isolated,uninformed hick,with no access to data,and very poor research skills,electronic or otherwise.
Since the 1800's at least,the traders and the whalers could have brought an object from basically anywhere.Even before,the Dutch in Indonesia,the Portugese in Japan,and on,and on,the Japan Current curls to go back south around here,so that the possibilities are endless.
The only telling info can come from the technology of the manufacture(or some expensive metallography).
In my limited view,such a construction-homogenising steel by piling and welding,is (1)not commonly practiced in Indonesia or South-East Asia(at least for the inexpensive trade goods),(2)ditto,really,anywhere else where the bulk of the trade goods may've originated.It's simply too laborious.
I started looking to the native manufacturing processes across the Strait,in the parts of Siberia,for that trade route functioned,of course,always.
One of the possible sources is what is now called Saha republic,Yakutia of the Szarist and the soviet Russia.Skilled in ironwork since pre-Russian invasion of 1600's(arguably),their work has appeared here regularly.In the early 1700's travel notes of Lt.Zagoskin(the first european to ascend the Yukon),describing the gathering of the tribes at the mouth of the Nowitna R.(roughly 300 miles from the coast)he says:"...i have instantly recognised some knives of Yakut craftsmanship".But,that part of the world's metalworking is quite a (yet)unopened can of worms).
Closer to home,directly across the Strait,on the Kamchatka peninsula,there is also evidence of some similar forge practices.In the (now abandoned)village of Paren,on the Paren river,at least in the off season the hunters would forge tools and weapons for trade.Supplied with bar iron by the Szarist traders,and ditto by the Soviets(actually forging as a collective farm in the 1940's-'50's.What those folks were up to earlier remains a mystery.
In general,an unfortunate assumption often is made by the scientific community as to the manipulation of Fe in the circumpolar north.But a few that i've chanced to talk to,were even unaware of the cold-forging of the two meteorites,by the Inuit of Greenland(both m.confiscated by Adm.Peary,and are now in storage at the N.Y.MET).
So,here i've typed for a while,and all seems toward no discernable point...Sorry about the lack of focus,i'd be very interested in hearing from those more informed.Best regards,Jake

Jake · 26th April 2009, 08:52 PM

Thank you also,gentlemen,for your replies,it took me a while to write this,and they were added meanwhile.Yes,it's not much but a big pile of loose ends...!

Jake · 26th April 2009, 09:11 PM

I must also add that as a blacksmith,and one addicted to reading papers on anthropology/exploration/et c. to boot,i often notice inaccuracies in the accounts,where they deal with matters metallurgical.
So that when the inevitable FINAL WORD comes down,which,invariably,is"These people were primitive(?),and were not familiar with open reduction of Fe/cementation/heat-treatment,and the like...",my doubt is never resolved.Even the immortal Steller,who was so scrupulous about the minutia of all else...
At the request of an anthropologist friend i have just leaved through 1992 doctoral dissertation by S.Ann Dunham,"The Peasant Blacksmithing in Indonesia".I must say that there are a few fairly gross inaccuracies,as exellent a paper(i'm sure)it is as far as cultural anthropology and the economics.
I understand that not everyone can obsess with forging,the way some of us are consumed,but...just the barest modicum of informedness,and so much can become clearer!
Please excuse my lament,all the best,Jake.

26th April 2009, 05:13 PM	#1
Jake Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13	Curious spear-head Gentlemen!Having but very recently joined in the forum,i'll go out on a limb here in the hopes that this object may in any way interest anyone.I apologize beforehand if the object lacks much of an interest in the context of your researches and collecting.Also for it's vague,at best,relationship to the "european"part of the forum discussion. But,here goes...It was found buried in the sand on the beach on Bering strait,south of Nome,Alaska.Then re-handled,and used a few times here,further inland,for taking bear (out of the den,mostly).That was 50 years or so previous. The spear is forgewelded out of fairly slaggy steel,the visible layer structure seems to be about .5mm thick.The socket is forgewelded very competently,and decorated with the alternating hot-inlay of copper and brass(the inlaying grooves are not dove-tailed).It's possible that the entire socket was coppered,much like many European,German,especially,tools.Since i've taken these(poor quality)photos,the new owner has dilligently "cleaned" it,obliterating the layering exposed by corrosion,and the surface remnants of the non-ferrous metals.The lengh O/A is about a foot. My feeble inquiry as to it's possible origin i should,probably,keep to myself,so as not to muddle any possible discussion(I've no qualifications for an academic research into this,or much else,at that But,as a native Russian speaker,did briefly cast my gaze in that direction(the Russian Far East),albeit without much that is conclusive in any way). Respectfully,Jake.

26th April 2009, 05:17 PM	#2
Jake Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13	Here are the photos themselves,and thanks,Jake. Attached Images

26th April 2009, 07:23 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Jake, First of all, welcome to the Forum!!! Its great to have someone here from our far northern regions, and I'm glad you have joined us here. Our scope of discussion is intended to feature virtually all forms of arms and armour, and including items which often seem to fall in the gray areas. I believe our basic philosophy is one never knows where clues might be found. Also, one does not need academic qualification to participate here, we are all here to learn together, so welcome aboard!! It is very good news to have someone who speaks Russian also, as we often have markings, and references where we need help. I would say this appears to be a socketed lance head of 19th century, but pending further research, cannot qualify that in more detail. Naturally, the long reach of trade routes extended heavily into your regions from far to the west, and European metalwork items were in great demand. The engraving in what appears to be crescents is very interesting. Please do share your thoughts, it tends to enhance discussion rather than inhibit it. All best regards, Jim

26th April 2009, 07:40 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Jake, Welcome! I agree with Jim on the age, and I'd add that we can't rule out Chinese manufacture either. It is, unfortunately, a fairly generic shape, and they're selling them even now for the martial arts community. The interesting thing to me are the decorations. I'll admit I haven't seen them before, but if they are original to the piece, they're probably our best clue for figuring out who made it. Best, F

26th April 2009, 08:31 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jake, I cannot add anything to your spear head but consent with what Jim and Fearn stated - and Welcome from my part as well, of course! Best, Michael

26th April 2009, 08:49 PM	#6
Jake Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13	Thank you,Sir,for the warm welcome,as well as a chance to share here. I'll have to preface anything that i may say by bringing up the fact that the entire subject of "Fe in the Arctic and the Sub-Arctic"is terra incognita,or very nearly so,as far as the academic research goes.But if that wasn't enough,these will be the thoughts of an isolated,uninformed hick,with no access to data,and very poor research skills,electronic or otherwise. Since the 1800's at least,the traders and the whalers could have brought an object from basically anywhere.Even before,the Dutch in Indonesia,the Portugese in Japan,and on,and on,the Japan Current curls to go back south around here,so that the possibilities are endless. The only telling info can come from the technology of the manufacture(or some expensive metallography). In my limited view,such a construction-homogenising steel by piling and welding,is (1)not commonly practiced in Indonesia or South-East Asia(at least for the inexpensive trade goods),(2)ditto,really,anywhere else where the bulk of the trade goods may've originated.It's simply too laborious. I started looking to the native manufacturing processes across the Strait,in the parts of Siberia,for that trade route functioned,of course,always. One of the possible sources is what is now called Saha republic,Yakutia of the Szarist and the soviet Russia.Skilled in ironwork since pre-Russian invasion of 1600's(arguably),their work has appeared here regularly.In the early 1700's travel notes of Lt.Zagoskin(the first european to ascend the Yukon),describing the gathering of the tribes at the mouth of the Nowitna R.(roughly 300 miles from the coast)he says:"...i have instantly recognised some knives of Yakut craftsmanship".But,that part of the world's metalworking is quite a (yet)unopened can of worms). Closer to home,directly across the Strait,on the Kamchatka peninsula,there is also evidence of some similar forge practices.In the (now abandoned)village of Paren,on the Paren river,at least in the off season the hunters would forge tools and weapons for trade.Supplied with bar iron by the Szarist traders,and ditto by the Soviets(actually forging as a collective farm in the 1940's-'50's.What those folks were up to earlier remains a mystery. In general,an unfortunate assumption often is made by the scientific community as to the manipulation of Fe in the circumpolar north.But a few that i've chanced to talk to,were even unaware of the cold-forging of the two meteorites,by the Inuit of Greenland(both m.confiscated by Adm.Peary,and are now in storage at the N.Y.MET). So,here i've typed for a while,and all seems toward no discernable point...Sorry about the lack of focus,i'd be very interested in hearing from those more informed.Best regards,Jake

26th April 2009, 08:52 PM	#7
Jake Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13	Thank you also,gentlemen,for your replies,it took me a while to write this,and they were added meanwhile.Yes,it's not much but a big pile of loose ends...!

26th April 2009, 09:11 PM	#8
Jake Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13	I must also add that as a blacksmith,and one addicted to reading papers on anthropology/exploration/et c. to boot,i often notice inaccuracies in the accounts,where they deal with matters metallurgical. So that when the inevitable FINAL WORD comes down,which,invariably,is"These people were primitive(?),and were not familiar with open reduction of Fe/cementation/heat-treatment,and the like...",my doubt is never resolved.Even the immortal Steller,who was so scrupulous about the minutia of all else... At the request of an anthropologist friend i have just leaved through 1992 doctoral dissertation by S.Ann Dunham,"The Peasant Blacksmithing in Indonesia".I must say that there are a few fairly gross inaccuracies,as exellent a paper(i'm sure)it is as far as cultural anthropology and the economics. I understand that not everyone can obsess with forging,the way some of us are consumed,but...just the barest modicum of informedness,and so much can become clearer! Please excuse my lament,all the best,Jake.