MORO KRIS LOOKS LIKE IT COMES FROM BORNEO

Dajak · 22nd September 2007, 02:44 PM

Any one see this Type off Kriss

29 inch. long

Ben

Lew · 22nd September 2007, 06:36 PM

Nice older kris but the silver work seems Indonesian a nice melding of the to cultures.

Lew

Battara · 22nd September 2007, 09:49 PM

This kris is of Malay work/origin in hilt. Seen these from this region before and may be Moro influenced long ago. Not what I would consider Moro itself however, except perhaps the blade from what I can see (Sulu blade?). Sulu had many contacts and even settlements in the region at one time.

Very beautiful piece. I like the silver work. Nice horn - is it rhino?

Dajak · 23rd September 2007, 12:14 AM

Hi All

yes it is Rhino

I do now that the sulu did setle on the North part off Borneo

the silver work looks like the motif that can be found inthe North part off Borneo or melanau the cost part.

BEN

Lew · 23rd September 2007, 12:24 AM

Ben

The silver work reminds of this piece in my collection. The hilt does not strike me as being rhino but then I do not have the sword in hand to be 100% sure either way it is a terrific piece.

Lew

DaveS · 23rd September 2007, 03:02 AM

Ben: I think that this is a Sulu blade, probably late 19th, early 20th cent. Definitely looks like malay silver work though........Dave

Dajak · 23rd September 2007, 08:58 AM

Hi Dave thanks does the moro s use also rhino for the handle .

Here are some pics off Borneo Handle s with silver work on it .

The last pic is from an Murut sword from North Borneo this is also Rhino .

Ben

Battara · 23rd September 2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi All

I do now that the sulu did setle on the North part off Borneo

Actually at one time the Northern part of Borneo was part of the Sulu Sultanate. There are even barongs from Northern Borneo, a "Sulu" weapon.

I agree that the blade is Sulu, or at the very least Sulu influenced.

I am not aware of many Sulu or Moro rhino hilt weapons, but that does not mean that they never used it. May have been harder to get through trade.

Dajak · 23rd September 2007, 09:49 PM

Hi Battara what type off barong they use in the North part of Borneo

Maybe this type off Barong

Ben

VVV · 23rd September 2007, 10:27 PM

Hi Ben,

I think the traditional NW Borneo Barong is more often the old-fashioned and less flamboyant hilt version like these 3.

Michael

PS I also suspect that your Kris is West Malaysia - and a very good one!

kai · 25th September 2007, 12:51 AM

Hello Ben,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

what type off barong they use in the North part of Borneo

Here are a few examples from the old forum:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001304.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001630.html

Your Barong seems to be a younger example: Cato mentions this hilt type originated in the 20/30ies. Is that mother of pearl or ivory inlay on the scabbard?

(BTW, Ben, please check your email...)

Regards,
Kai

Dajak · 25th September 2007, 04:27 AM

Hi Kai this barong could be older than you think mother off pearl is inlay

Ben

kai · 25th September 2007, 07:28 AM

Hello Ben,

Quote:

this barong could be older than you think

That's Cato's dating and his opinions have been questioned before...

Do you have reliable provenance/dating for your piece? Would be great to get additional data on these nice blades!

Quote:

mother off pearl is inlay

That's also supposed to be correlated with younger pieces but allows even less sure dating AFAIK.

To me, the blade would be most important, anyway. And that can always be older than the fittings...

Regards,
Kai

Dajak · 25th September 2007, 04:37 PM

Here some pics about the blade

kai · 25th September 2007, 07:49 PM

Hello Ben,

Quote:

Here some pics about the blade

A nicely laminated blade (that pattern is quite often seen in Barong)! Did you received it etched as it is? The slender form seems to crop out quite often in Sabah but has been found elsewhere, too. (Vice versa with the more deep bellied blades also showing up in Sabah, too, as shown by Ling Roth's example so shape doesn't seem of great help in determining the origin of a Barong.)

The hilt seems to be well worn with good quality banati/bunti wood used for the pommel. Any hints on the date when this piece got collected?

BTW, Ben, did you received my email/PM on the other blades?

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 28th September 2007, 06:44 PM

I am inclined to believe that the MOP is a later tendency, no earlier than the turn of the century. It is also possible that the scabbard is later. The actual barong seems to be no older than the turn of the century and of Samal influence. The scabbard however seems to be of Samal in carving and Borneo influence in shape and size. I do like the chasing decoration on the silver punto at top and bottom.

22nd September 2007, 02:44 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	MORO KRIS LOOKS LIKE IT COMES FROM BORNEO Any one see this Type off Kriss 29 inch. long Ben Attached Images

23rd September 2007, 12:24 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ben The silver work reminds of this piece in my collection. The hilt does not strike me as being rhino but then I do not have the sword in hand to be 100% sure either way it is a terrific piece. Lew Attached Images

23rd September 2007, 08:58 AM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Dave thanks does the moro s use also rhino for the handle . Here are some pics off Borneo Handle s with silver work on it . The last pic is from an Murut sword from North Borneo this is also Rhino . Ben Attached Images

23rd September 2007, 09:49 PM	#9
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Battara what type off barong they use in the North part of Borneo Maybe this type off Barong Ben Attached Images

23rd September 2007, 10:27 PM	#10
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Ben, I think the traditional NW Borneo Barong is more often the old-fashioned and less flamboyant hilt version like these 3. Michael PS I also suspect that your Kris is West Malaysia - and a very good one! Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 23rd September 2007 at 10:41 PM. Reason: added a picture from Ling Roth as well

22nd September 2007, 06:36 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nice older kris but the silver work seems Indonesian a nice melding of the to cultures. Lew

22nd September 2007, 09:49 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	This kris is of Malay work/origin in hilt. Seen these from this region before and may be Moro influenced long ago. Not what I would consider Moro itself however, except perhaps the blade from what I can see (Sulu blade?). Sulu had many contacts and even settlements in the region at one time. Very beautiful piece. I like the silver work. Nice horn - is it rhino?

23rd September 2007, 12:14 AM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi All yes it is Rhino I do now that the sulu did setle on the North part off Borneo the silver work looks like the motif that can be found inthe North part off Borneo or melanau the cost part. BEN

23rd September 2007, 03:02 AM	#6
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Ben: I think that this is a Sulu blade, probably late 19th, early 20th cent. Definitely looks like malay silver work though........Dave

25th September 2007, 04:27 AM	#12
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Kai this barong could be older than you think mother off pearl is inlay Ben

25th September 2007, 04:37 PM	#14
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Here some pics about the blade Attached Images

28th September 2007, 06:44 PM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I am inclined to believe that the MOP is a later tendency, no earlier than the turn of the century. It is also possible that the scabbard is later. The actual barong seems to be no older than the turn of the century and of Samal influence. The scabbard however seems to be of Samal in carving and Borneo influence in shape and size. I do like the chasing decoration on the silver punto at top and bottom.