A spear point

Ed · 28th August 2008, 11:09 PM

Hi folks. It's been while hasn't it? In spite of the Ethnographic bent that has emerged here I recall that some of you are quite versed in European material.

I thought that I'd toss this up for consideration.

I picked this up the other day. The form is classic and if it where shorter you would not be surprised to see it identified as a medieval arrow head. Problem is that it is spear size (~14 "). It has age on it but the thing that gives me pause is the tang. For the life of me, I am not sure that I ever saw a european example of a spearhead that was tanged. At least not one this long.

The romantic in me says "Gosh, what a perfect example of a ballista bolt" then reality reestablishes itself.

Any thoughts?

Jim McDougall · 28th August 2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incitatus

Hi folks. It's been while hasn't it? In spite of the Ethnographic bent that has emerged here I recall that some of you are quite versed in European material.

I thought that I'd toss this up for consideration.

I picked this up the other day. The form is classic and if it where shorter you would not be surprised to see it identified as a medieval arrow head. Problem is that it is spear size (~14 "). It has age on it but the thing that gives me pause is the tang. For the life of me, I am not sure that I ever saw a european example of a spearhead that was tanged. At least not one this long.

The romantic in me says "Gosh, what a perfect example of a ballista bolt" then reality reestablishes itself.

Any thoughts?

There is indeed an 'ethnographic bent' on the Ethnographic Arms & Armor Forum

but as you note there is a considerable core of knowledge and interest in European topics. There has been discussion and hopes of developing another subforum in the past to offer broader discussion opportunities.
Hopefully those well versed in these spearheads will answer.

Ed · 28th August 2008, 11:39 PM

I recall the old old old days when "Viking Sword" was something more than a name to confuse people with.

I stopped posting since I really don't collect ethnographic stuff.

Is there a chance of developing another sub forum such as there was? I would even volenteer to moderate.

Jim McDougall · 28th August 2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incitatus

I recall the old old old days when "Viking Sword" was something more than a name to confuse people with.

I stopped posting since I really don't collect ethnographic stuff.

Is there a chance of developing another sub forum such as there was? I would even volenteer to moderate.

Thats great Incitatus! I'm in favor of that

While the predominant fields in ethnographic are well represented here, especially the keris on this forum as well as its subforum, the topic of European and often regulation military blades do come up often.
I very much miss the discussion of Viking and medieval swords as well, and there is, in my personal opinion, not another viable forum for this.

Ed · 29th August 2008, 12:05 AM

Agree.

I used to post as Ed but when the forum software changed that name got lost so I reverted to one of my aliases.

I've added quite a lot to my armor collection, less to blades and considerably to firearms both early and otherwise.

Ed · 29th August 2008, 03:18 PM

hmmmmm seems that I'm "Ed" again. Thanks Lee.

fernando · 29th August 2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

... The romantic in me says "Gosh, what a perfect example of a ballista bolt" then reality reestablishes itself...

Hi Ed,
How much romantic ?

Aren't ballista (and crossbow) bolts socketed ?

Fernando

Ed · 29th August 2008, 10:14 PM

Some were, maybe most were. Thing is that it was quicker to make a tang than a socket so that war points often have a tang. I mean, why invest the time when you are simply shooting at an enemy.

Something says "modern" to me but I'm not quite sure.

stekemest · 29th August 2008, 10:19 PM

Crossbow bolts can have both a tang and a socket. The piece in question does not seem to me to be medieval at all, as in all the years that I have studied medieval crossbow bolts I have never seen something like that. That means it's probably either not from Europe, or it's quite modern...

I could show you some pictures of my crossbow bolts tomorrow if you are interested.

stekemest

stekemest · 29th August 2008, 10:20 PM

By the way, european spear points almost never have a tang. There are exceptions, though, but they are very rare.
stm

Ed · 29th August 2008, 10:23 PM

I'd love to see pictures.

The form of this this isn't bad in fact, it is sort of classic. It is the damn tang.

Ah, our posts crossed in the night.

fernando · 29th August 2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stekemest

... I could show you some pictures of my crossbow bolts tomorrow if you are interested ...

Could they be much different from the couple i have shown in post #7 ?
Eventualy those are my own; very common Portuguese specimens, XIV and XV century ...

Fernando

Rick · 29th August 2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

I'd love to see pictures.

The form of this this isn't bad in fact, it is sort of classic. It is the damn tang.

Ah, our posts crossed in the night.

Budiak have similar tangs; the form overall is similar ..

fernando · 30th August 2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Budiak have similar tangs; the form overall is similar ..

Yeah ... why should it be an European lance head ?

Tell us what we are missing, Ed.

Ed · 30th August 2008, 12:27 AM

You are right. My bias is european so that is what I was seeing.

Ed · 30th August 2008, 12:32 AM

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ant...k,1610189.html

Learned something today.

Battara · 30th August 2008, 03:03 AM

I was wondering if it was Lumad.......

stekemest · 30th August 2008, 08:49 AM

Hi,
The new picture convinces me that this piece is definitely not european.

Ed · 30th August 2008, 12:51 PM

Agree. It demonstrates the value of having a cross cultural approach to identification.

28th August 2008, 11:09 PM	#1
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	A spear point Hi folks. It's been while hasn't it? In spite of the Ethnographic bent that has emerged here I recall that some of you are quite versed in European material. I thought that I'd toss this up for consideration. I picked this up the other day. The form is classic and if it where shorter you would not be surprised to see it identified as a medieval arrow head. Problem is that it is spear size (~14 "). It has age on it but the thing that gives me pause is the tang. For the life of me, I am not sure that I ever saw a european example of a spearhead that was tanged. At least not one this long. The romantic in me says "Gosh, what a perfect example of a ballista bolt" then reality reestablishes itself. Any thoughts?

28th August 2008, 11:39 PM	#3
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	I recall the old old old days when "Viking Sword" was something more than a name to confuse people with. I stopped posting since I really don't collect ethnographic stuff. Is there a chance of developing another sub forum such as there was? I would even volenteer to moderate.

29th August 2008, 12:05 AM	#5
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	Agree. I used to post as Ed but when the forum software changed that name got lost so I reverted to one of my aliases. I've added quite a lot to my armor collection, less to blades and considerably to firearms both early and otherwise.

29th August 2008, 03:18 PM	#6
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	hmmmmm seems that I'm "Ed" again. Thanks Lee.

29th August 2008, 10:14 PM	#8
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	Some were, maybe most were. Thing is that it was quicker to make a tang than a socket so that war points often have a tang. I mean, why invest the time when you are simply shooting at an enemy. Something says "modern" to me but I'm not quite sure.

29th August 2008, 10:19 PM	#9
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Crossbow bolts can have both a tang and a socket. The piece in question does not seem to me to be medieval at all, as in all the years that I have studied medieval crossbow bolts I have never seen something like that. That means it's probably either not from Europe, or it's quite modern... I could show you some pictures of my crossbow bolts tomorrow if you are interested. stekemest

29th August 2008, 10:20 PM	#10
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	By the way, european spear points almost never have a tang. There are exceptions, though, but they are very rare. stm

29th August 2008, 10:23 PM	#11
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	I'd love to see pictures. The form of this this isn't bad in fact, it is sort of classic. It is the damn tang. Ah, our posts crossed in the night.

30th August 2008, 12:27 AM	#15
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	You are right. My bias is european so that is what I was seeing.

30th August 2008, 12:32 AM	#16
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ant...k,1610189.html Learned something today.

30th August 2008, 03:03 AM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I was wondering if it was Lumad.......

30th August 2008, 08:49 AM	#18
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Hi, The new picture convinces me that this piece is definitely not european.

30th August 2008, 12:51 PM	#19
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 189	Agree. It demonstrates the value of having a cross cultural approach to identification.